Paul Garfinkel, member and past president of the Orthodox Brith Sholom Beth Israel Synagogue (BSBI) in Charleston, South Carolina, talks about events leading to the formation of Congregation Dor Tikvah in 2012 by former members of BSBI. He notes that the idea of moving the synagogue out of the downtown area was a topic of discussion even before he took his first position on the BSBI board as recording secretary in 1973. Leaders of the synagogue on Rutledge Avenue resisted moving but did allow the establishment, in 1965, of the South Windermere Minyan House, in association with BSBI. The Minyan House, located in the South Windermere subdivision just across the Ashley River from downtown Charleston, was home to many Jewish Charlestonians who had moved off the peninsula to the suburbs in the 1950s. Decades later, a number of observant Jewish families had settled in the neighborhoods surrounding the Jewish Community Center (JCC), which in 1966 had relocated west of the Ashley—too far to walk to BSBI or the South Windermere Minyan House. Paul describes the efforts of Ben Chase, president of BSBI from 2004 to 2006, to lead the congregation in settling the question of whether to move. The vote, which took place right after Chase's term ended, found that a slim majority of congregants wished to stay downtown. Besides wanting to have a synagogue nearby, some members who lived near the JCC were dissatisfied with how the congregation was being run. They felt decisions were being made by a select few in leadership positions. In 2006, they formed the West Ashley Minyan (WAM). A few BSBI congregants tried to find a way for the WAM to become a second minyan associated with BSBI, but members of WAM found the conditions required by synagogue leaders too difficult to meet. Paul discusses reasons some BSBI members did not want to move the synagogue. One person, who lived a block from the downtown synagogue, was determined it would not move. He was "such a powerful force in the congregation that people did not want to go against him personally." Another strong factor has been sentimental attachment to the building itself. Paul remains a member of BSBI, remarking that he was "literally brought up in that building," and he thinks "it's important to keep the family tradition going." However, he points to the depletion of BSBI's financial resources. Although membership is declining, the congregation continues to spend large amounts of money to repair ongoing structural problems on the property. He believes a small city like Charleston will be unable to support two Orthodox synagogues and would like to see the congregations reunited. See transcript for a correction made by the interviewee during proofing.
Born in Charleston, SC on September 11, 1976 and raised in nearby Pinopolis, Lindsay Holler is a singer, composer, and guitar player who has additionally been a strong advocate for local musicians and a fixture of the music scene. In this interview she recalls her musical influences, including her parents’ mainstream pop records and her brother’s enthusiasm for the Black Crows. In addition to playing flute in the middle school band and taking piano lessons, Holler also studied voice with opera singer June Bonner. That association led to a visit to Broadway at age 13, where she saw Gregory Hines and Phylicia Rashad in Jelly’s Last Jam. “I kind of fell in love with New York a little bit, and I was like, oh, man, that’s where I want to go,” Holler recalls. Following her high school graduation, Holler studied jazz at the Berklee College of Music before returning to Charleston to complete her musical education at the College of Charleston. She has recorded and performed with several locally-based groups, including the Dirty Kids, the Western Polaroids, and Matadero. Though often in the spotlight as the lead singer, Holler is ambivalent about the attention that it brings her and worries that that ambivalence may undermine her success: “Everybody is me, me, me, show me, let me show you, you know, it’s such a prevalent posture nowadays, where it’s in your face, and who’s going to be the loudest, and who is going to be the most out there, and that’s never been my thing. But I worry do you have to be like that in order to be successful?”
Rhonda Jones (1970) is a sanitation worker for the City of Charleston, South Carolina. Having grown up in Brooklyn, New York; Rhonda moved south as a teenager to care for her ailing grandparents. A self-described outspoken and aggressive "Northerner," Jones had trouble assimilating into the slowness of life in the Lowcountry. In this interview, she recalls her life as a teenager displaced in Charleston and her efforts to provide for her children. In 2000 Jones applied for employment with the City of Charleston and became one of the first women that worked in sanitation as collector. In a traditionally male dominated environment she faced multiple challenges that included sexual harassment due both being a women and being a lesbian. Furthermore, Jones articulate the struggles that all sanitation workers, regardless their gender, face in their battle for better working conditions and the right to organize a union. At the time of the interview Jones was very involved with Local 1199, an organizing body fighting for the formation of a sanitation workers' union.
Mary Ann Sullivan (b. 1944) was born and raised in Charleston, South Carolina. She attended the College of Charleston and then the University of Georgia where she graduated with an M.A in Classics. Sullivan worked as a teacher for a few years and in 1976 joined the Mayor’s Office of the City of Charleston as a grant writer. She became Mayor Joseph P. Riley executive assistant and continued working with him until his retirement in 2016. In the interview, Sullivan remembers growing up in Charleston and the events that contributed to her early political interests. She also talks about her experiences working with Mayor Riley through critical moments in the history of the city such as the development of the Charleston Place, Hurricane Hugo, the annexations of Daniel Island and James Island, the Sofa Super Store fire and the Mother Emanuel massacre. Sullivan reflects about Riley’s leadership style and his inclusion of minorities in government. Finally, she talks about her decision to retire and her plans for the future.
Arlington Sanford was born on December 21, 1923, in Danbury, Connecticut. He joined the Navy shortly after graduating from high school. After boot camp in Newport, Rhode Island, he went to diesel school in South Richmond, Virginia, and graduated as a Fireman First Class. He was then assigned to landing ship tank (LST-307) in Boston, Massachusetts. He shipped out of New York on St. Patrick's Day in 1943 and took part in the Sicilian Occupation, the Salerno Landings, and the Normandy Invasion. Sanford describes his close relationship with Jack Junior Faughn, Boatswain's Mate Second Class from Peoria, Illinois: We were closer than brothers. We were inseparable; everywhere we went together, all through the war and did the same thing. LST-307 was struck hard by German guns during the Normandy invasion off Sword Beach. Upon impact Sanford sped to the main deck where he found Faughn's badly injured body. I kind of held him and took care of him for a while, until the corpsman came, Sanford recalled. That's the last I ever saw him.
Fleming was born in Charleston, South Carolina on 8 January 1922. To help support his family following the death of his father, Fleming joined the Civilian Conservation Corps in 1939 through which he worked on Bull’s Island. He recalls the Charleston of his childhood: “We didn't have but one street, Spring Street, to go across the old Ashley River Bridge . . . . right back where the stadium is at, all that was the river.” Fleming married and was drafted in 1942. He attended basic training at Camp Sibert, Alabama, where he “learned how to take care of myself through that army life, I learned a lot because when you hit them beach head, there ain’t nobody there to help you, you got to help yourself.” In Hawaii, he received training that prepared him for work as a medic on ship hospitals and in field hospitals in the Pacific. He recalls many harrowing scenes of battle and details life in foxholes during Japanese air attacks. Returning to Charleston after the war, Fleming worked in carpentry and construction, and played baseball for the Avco Corporation team. He concludes by reflecting on the September 2011 death of his wife of 69 years, Dorothy Buckingham Fleming, whose grave he visits weekly: “I go up there and look at the grave, and I got a little clipper, you know, like the stone, and I cut around it and take the brush and brush it all off.”
William Bendt was born in Charleston, South Carolina in 1920. As a teenager, he withdrew from Murray Vocational High School to work at the White Swan laundry. He began working at the Naval Shipyard as a classified laborer when he was eighteen years old and soon transferred to an office position that he held for the rest of his civil service career. In this interview, Bendt recalls seeing Franklin Delano Roosevelt during the president’s visit to the shipyard. “I got within thirty feet of President Roosevelt, watching him come down that gangplank, and out of that back seat, projected out where he could sit down, and then went back in. And I really appreciate that I got to see him real close.” Bendt’s supervisors procured two draft deferments on his behalf, but they were unable to secure a third deferment. Upon joining the Army, he attended basic training at Fort Jackson (Columbia, South Carolina), infantry training at Camp Wheeler (Macon, Georgia), reported to Fort Meade (Baltimore, Maryland), and was sent to Camp Shanks (New York) before shipping out of New Jersey. “Before going aboard, the Red Cross came along and gave us all a little green bag with toiletries, what have you,” Bendt recalled. “I have that bag today and a little container of milk.” Assigned to the Second Army Division in France as a replacement, Bendt arrived on the continent on D-Day plus six. Bendt discusses his brief captivity at the hands of the Germans, while in combat along the Rhine River. After the war, Bendt met Russian soldiers in occupied Berlin. Returning to Charleston after the war, he resumed his work at the Naval Shipyard in the Public Works Department, where he accumulated over thirty-six years of service.
Henry Berlin was born August 19, 1924, in Charleston and enrolled at The Citadel in 1941. After enlistment and training, Berlin eventually served as a radar operator on an LST during the early Normandy landings. After the war he studied law at the University of South Carolina for two years and returned to work at Berlin's clothing store on the corner of King and Broad Streets in Charleston, SC. Berlin details his brief but rebellious tenure at the Citadel before going on active duty in May 1942. He describes how this rebellious streak ended his naval officer training in Columbia, SC, and how he was shipped to Maryland for boot camp. He discusses how he eventually became a radar operator on an LST ferrying troops and material across the English Channel in the days and months after D-Day. He relates harrowing trips across the channel, being targeted by German artillery during the early landings on Normandy, and the loss of troops as they disembarked from the LST in rough seas. After V-E day he describes his return to the US, his trip through the Panama Canal and his arrival at Pearl Harbor just before V-J day. He also touches upon his immediate post-war life including law school, a brief stint playing semi-pro baseball and return to his father's clothing shop in Charleston. Audio with transcript.
Robert S. Adden was born 1 January 1923 in Orangeburg, SC, and enrolled at The Citadel in 1940. He went on active duty with his class of 1944 classmates at the end of their 1943 spring semester, first to basic training at Fort McClellan, AL, and then to 18 weeks of Infantry Officer Candidates School at Fort Benning, GA. His regiment was shipped overseas to England for a month and then to Germany, where they were attached to the British Second Army and became engaged in combat in an attack on the Siegfried line a month before the Battle of the Bulge. After the war he earned an M.B.A. and Ph.D., and returned to The Citadel as a faculty member and administrator until he retired. He received an honorary degree in 2008 in a ceremony that honored the class of 1944, "the class that never was." Adden describes how his Citadel class (1944) was called to active duty at the end of their spring semester in 1943. He describes basic training in Fort McClellan, AL, and his stint in Officer Candidates School in Fort Benning, GA. Commissioned a second lieutenant in May 1944, he began training with the Eighty-fourth Infantry Division at Camp Claiborne in Louisiana where he became a mortar platoon leader. His regiment was shipped to Europe and was attached to the British Second Army during the Rhineland campaign. Adden discusses his first major combat experiences in November, 1944, when his battalion was assigned to secure the town of Prummern, Germany. Shot 5 times in the streets of Prummern, Adden describes how he played dead for hours as German troops and tanks passed beside him. He recalls stumbling to an American aid station after the streets cleared followed by hospital stays in Europe and the US. He returned to active duty in August 1945. Adden also touches briefly on his life and education after the war. Audio with transcript.
A native of Rocky Mount, North Carolina, Adams recalls his WWII experiences and decision to enlist in the Navy as a seventeen year-old. Adams was assigned to the USS Duchess, which primarily served as an attack transport carrier. His most vivid combat experiences came in off-loading troops during the battle of Okinawa in the spring of 1945. Although stationed in the boiler room of the transport, he went topside during part of the unloading and helped carry one of the wounded men aboard ship. After returning home from the war he graduated from The Citadel (1950) and capitalized on his entrepreneurial spirit, founding his own blueprint business as well as Charleston Yacht Sales until he retired from his real estate business, which his daughters continue to run in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina.
Major General James Alexander Grimsley was born in 1921 in Florence, South Carolina. After graduating from The Citadel in 1942 he was commissioned 2nd Lieutenant in the US Army. He served for thirty-three years and finished his Army career as the Director of Security Assistance Plans and Policy in the Office of the Secretary of Defense. Among his thirty-five major decorations are Two Silver Star medals for gallantry in Action; four Bronze Star medals for Valor; four Legion of Merit awards; and three Purple Heart medals. In September 1975, Grimsley accepted the position of Vice President of Administration and Finance at The Citadel and five years later was named the 16th President of the military college. Upon retiring in 1989, the Board of Visitors named him President Emeritus, a position held only by Generals Charles P. Summerall and Mark W. Clark. Grimsley, reflects on his decision to attend The Citadel and his combat experiences in Vietnam. He also discusses several of his major achievements as Citadel President. On transitioning from the Army to The Citadel, Grimsley observes that “it was made easier for me coming to The Citadel because it was a military college so there was a structure here that I understood. They just wore cadet uniforms and not army uniforms.” In an April 4-6, 2000 interview, a transcript of which is at the Citadel Archives and Museum, Grimsley detailed his active duty service during WWII.
George Thomas Lamme (Pronouns: He/Him/His), discusses his early years in Nebraska, moving to New York City and Chicago, and then settling in Charleston, SC where he became involved in many LGBTQ related projects and businesses. Growing up gay and Catholic in Beemer, Nebraska, Lamme always knew he was different; engaging in cowboy and Indian games, he always played Big Ruby, "a bar girl". Attending a Lutheran college, he intended to be a priest, but eventually became a teacher in a Catholic school in his hometown instead. Pursuing some legal action against the school, he was threatened with being outed by the administration if he did not quit; it was recommended he move to New York City. There, he pursued his interest in theatre, working with H.M. Koutoukas and La Mama's avant gard theatre, among other things. Moving to Chicago, where he had worked in the box office of the Academy Festival Theatre, he met David Cardwell and Jeff Miller, who moved to Charleston, SC. In 1978, Lamme came to visit and never left. He was instrumental in finding backers for their bar Les Jardins, soon working there, writing, staging, and directing various musical spoofs and tributes. He also was befriended by Richard (Dick) Robison, whose Garden and Gun Club Lamme later joined as staff. He describes the small "quiet? beautiful" town Charleston was, its social structure and its class of closeted gay men. "Everybody knew that there were important people in the city? who had boyfriends," he notes. "But Charleston was such a polite city, you don't bring up that subject because? [t]hat person is a good person?." As a bartender and a door man, he was involved with selecting or rejecting those applying for membership, and got to know drag queens, society women, bar owners, other bars and bar patrons, many of which he describes. He also became active in the founding and running of Helping Hands dedicated to raising awareness of HIV and AIDS and raising funds for people with AIDS. He reflects on some of the earlier aspects of gay life in the city, speaks of attending local and national LGBTQ parades, describes the devastation of Hurricane Hugo, his work in hotel banqueting, as a guide at the Calhoun (now Williams) Mansion, and in the tourism office of the City of Charleston. He ends by affirming how satisfying it is to see LGBTQ people out in the community, describing how children and others realize he is gay, and how he loves "the fact that not a single person makes any trouble for anyone walking hand in hand in Charleston right now."
Jensen Cowan (pronouns: They/Them) was born July 4, 1997 in Brandon, Florida, and discusses growing up in Socastee, adjacent to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, in an emotionally and verbally abusive home. They discuss chosen family and close friends, their relationship with their mother and four sisters in a blended family and what it meant to leave home to start a new life at the College of Charleston, with mentions of being in the Bonner Leadership Program there. Cowan describes the struggles of separating from their family financially and finding a method to pay for school. Working with We Are Family and attending functions of Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Cowan felt “discrepancies in maturities” in various groups, eventually finding supportive friends and neighbors to help with personal issues and the need for food. Cowan discusses identifying as queer, nonbinary, and trans, mentions a fundraiser they started to help pay for surgery and speaks of their capstone project to map all the gender-neutral bathrooms on the College of Charleston campus. Cowan notes a lack of response from College administrators on this and other LGBTQ oriented issues, describes the inconveniences and disruptions caused to their college studies by this lack of facilities and speaks to the insensitivity of some faculty and friends in using offensive vocabularies and inappropriate pronouns. Cowan and the interviewer discuss the lack of diversity within Charleston Pride, and the larger LGBTQ movement as a whole, while praising classes and faculty, such as Dr. Kristi Bryan, within the College’s Women’s & Gender Studies program and the positive effect it has had on them and others. The interview closes with a discussion of Cowan’s plans for the future after graduating in May 2019, having earlier mentioned a disinclination to return to working as an educator/camp counselor at Kids On Point (formerly Chucktown Squash), due to the fact that the students there would have known them under a different name.
Michelle Mapp was born on September 4, 1969 in Bad Kreuznach, Germany where her father, a U.S. Army drill sergeant was stationed. The family moved back to the United States when she was four years old and to the Charleston area when she was thirteen. Mapp attended Brentwood Middle School and Garret High School in North Charleston. She earned a bachelor's degree in Engineering from Clemson University and a Master of Engineering Management at George Washington University. She lived with her husband in Atlanta for several years and then relocated to Charleston in 2000. While teaching math at Stall High in North Charleston she observed the complexity of community factors that affected her students and became more interested in working on public policies. Following this interest, she enrolled in the master's degree program in public administration at the College of Charleston and started working right away with a newly formed organization, the Charleston Housing Trust. In the interview, Mapp discusses in length the need for affordable housing in Charleston and North Charleston and states that regional conversations and plans are needed and still lacking. She explains that affordable housing requires both finding resources but also modifying government building and development regulations. At the end of the interview, Mapp reflects about the Mother Emanuel AME Chuch massacre, the killing of Walter Scott, and systemic racism in Charleston and South Carolina.
Librarian and educator Kim Williams Odom was born in Charleston, South Carolina in 1970. Her family moved to the Jacksonville Military Base in North Carolina when she was in elementary school. Years later, she returned to Charleston as a single mother looking for a better life for herself and her child. She started taking her young daughter to the J.L. Dart Public Library and there she met Cynthia Graham Hurd who became her boss, her mentor, and her best friend. In the interview, Williams Odom tells about her family's deep roots in Charleston and takes pride in her relatives' achievements and contributions to the community. She remembers her struggles to overcome discrimination and succeed in a hostile school environment in North Carolina and tells about her dreams to become a cultural worker. She also talks about her extended career as a public librarian, including her role in the celebration of the J.L. Dart Public Library 85th anniversary and her experience as a manager at the St. Paul's library in Hollywood. She asserts her family's and Graham Hurd's values and ideas shaped her approach to community work. Finally, Williams Odom remembers the day her friend, along with the other eight church members, was killed at Mother Emanuel AME Church. She explains her refusal to let her friend's story to be reduced and defined by the hate and racism that took her life. Instead, she chose to honor Graham Hurd's life and legacy by keeping her work alive and committing her time and energy to several local projects that accomplished that goal. Finally, she states she is taking time to privately mourn her beloved friend.
Thalia Orozco (b.1994) was born in Charleston, South Carolina. Her parents are from Michoacán, Mexico, and they came to the USA as agricultural migrant workers. In the nineties, they settled down in Wadmalaw Island, SC. Orozco attended Rural Mission, Frierson Elementary, Angel Oak Elementary, and graduated from high school at Charleston Collegiate. In the interview, she remembers her childhood and teen years and explains the challenges of growing up in the Sea Islands as a first-generation American- born citizen. She reflects on race relationships, belonging and exclusion, representation, and the barriers to political engagement. Thalia Orozco (b.1994) nació en Charleston, SC. Sus padres, originarios del estado de Michoacán, México, llegaron a los Estados Unidos como trabajadores agrícolas migrantes. En los años noventa se establecieron en Wadmalaw Island, SC. Orozco aprendió sus primeras letras con el programa Head Start en Rural Mission. Luego fue estudiante de las escuelas Frierson Elementary y Angel Oak Elementary y completo sus estudios en la escuela media y preparatoria en Charleston Collegiate. En la entrevista recuerda su infancia y adolescencia y explica los desafíos de crecer en el Lowcountry como ciudadana de primera generación nacida en Estados Unidos. Reflexiona acerca de las tensiones raciales y las cuestiones de pertenencia y exclusión que ha experimentado como así también acerca de las barreras y desafíos para la representación y participación política.
Thomas Spera (b.1994). His father was born in the USA and his mother in Argentina. They met while on vacation and fell in love. The young couple made Scotch Plains, New Jersey home and there raised Spera and his two youngest siblings. Interested in pursuing a military career, he enrolled at The Citadel. In the interview, Spera recalls his pre-knob week and his time adjusting to The Citadel's culture as a member of the Band Company. He states his appreciation for the Political Science teachers and the value of having well-versed instructors. Spera reflects on his Latino identity and about embracing his Latino roots. Finally, he observes that The Citadel benefits by having a more diverse student body.
Jeanette P. Singleton was born on October 6, 1932 in Awendaw, South Carolina. She attended South Carolina College and later the University of South Carolina where she earned a master's degree in library science. Upon her graduation, in 1954 she was hired at Lincoln School in McClellanville, South Carolina. She worked in this institution for thirty-seven years until her retirement in 1992. In the interview, Ms. Singleton talks about the school's lack of resources during segregation and the challenges brought by integration. She remembers Hurricane Hugo devastation and the efforts to recover from it. Singleton laments the closing of Lincoln High in 2016 arguing the school was important for the local community, which took pride in its history and its graduates' accomplishments. Finally, Singleton reflects on her calling to be an educator and offers words of advice and encouragement to young teachers.
United Methodist Church minister Wiley Barrow Cooper (b. 1942) was born in Greenville, South Carolina. In addition to his pastoral work, he had a long career in human services. In the interview, Cooper discusses his association with South Carolina Clergy Consultation Service for Problem Pregnancies (SCCCS) in Greenville. He explains why he became involved, his role as a volunteer counselor, and the problems women faced during that time in South Carolina. Finally, he reflects on his own spiritual beliefs regarding abortion and his participation in the civil rights movement.
As part of 2019 Pride Week on the College of Charleston campus, local television journalist Megan Rivers moderates and interviews four speakers at an "LGBTQ+ Justice: The Road Ahead Panel Discussion" sponsored by the Charleston American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Ryan White Wellness Center. The panelists introduce themselves sequentially and then, slightly out of order, each one answers one question posed by Rivers. Cora Webb (pronouns: she/her/they/them), Program Director of We Are Family, addresses issues facing LGBTQ+ youth such as bullying; the failure of schools to stop it; bathroom access for trans students; and the state's "No Promo Homo" law prohibiting discussion of queer identifies except in a negative light. Michael Luciano (pronouns: he/him) speaks on HIV and AIDS as a Peer Treatment Educator at Palmetto Community Care, a member of the National AIDS Treatment Advocacy Project, the Southern AIDS Coalition, the Southern AIDS Strategy Coalition, the Tri-County Sexual Health Awareness Prevention and Education Initiative (SHAPE Tri-County), and other councils and committees. He mentions living with HIV for decades and focuses on SC state laws that target, criminalize. and stigmatize people living with HIV. Jerry Evans (pronouns: he/him), introducing himself as gay lawyer passionate about First Amendment issues, then discusses "religious refusal" and court cases pitting religious objections on certain topics against equal protection under the law for LGBTQ+ and other people. The last to be introduced, Kenya Cummings (pronouns: she/her/they/them), the Opportunities Organizer for Carolina Youth Action Project, speaks of her organization that serves and educates for girls, trans youth and gender non-conforming youth. She advocates for comprehensive sex education and discusses the state's over reliance on School Resource Officers (SROs), law enforcement officers who apply police tactics instead of educational approaches in difficult situations in schools, creating more problems than they solve.
Treva Williams was born in Lyons, Kansas. She was the lead organizer of the Charleston Area Justice Ministry (CAJM), a faith-based community organizing group, from 2012-2022. In this interview recorded right after the end of her tenure with the organization, Williams remembers and reflects on the life experiences that shaped her leadership values and vision. The interview's first part delves on Williams’ experiences from childhood to her moving to Charleston. The second part focuses on Williams’ involvement with CAJM. Williams grew up in a conservative Christian family. She has a twin sister and a younger brother. When she was a child, her family relocated for health and economic reasons to Tucson, Arizona. Later they moved to California, where her father went to the seminary and became a pastor. Williams reflects on the importance of these early years that brought to her life a diversity that was absent in her native Kansas. The family returned to Kansas in time for her middle school years. Then, sports became a central part of the Williams sisters’ life. They played basketball, volleyball, and track and kept playing through high school. Williams attended Sterling College and received scholarships for sports, music, and theater. She married when she was twenty years old, and her first child was born the next year. After having her second child, Williams and her husband decided he would stay at home with the kids, and she would be the breadwinner. She joined a Presbyterian Church in Fort Scott, Kansas as youth minister. She stayed in the job for nine years. These years were transformational and shaped her understanding of the world and the role of faith in it. She realized the church was mostly focusing on helping people instead of on changing the structures that oppressed them. She decided to shift her focus and change jobs. She applied to join DART (Direct Action and Research Training) and soon she became the lead organizer for the social justice ministry that was forming in Charleston, SC (South Carolina). Williams remembers the day of her interview and her first impressions in Charleston. Talks about the challenges and thrills of organizing CAJM and building power. She names the organizers that were part of the process and discusses the need for a better model to support and retain these crucial social justice workers. She remembers some critical moments in CAJM’s history such as the first massive and successful Nehemiah Action, the controversy with Major Riley related to jobs with the city of Charleston, and the lengthy process to secure policing racial bias audits in Charleston and North Charleston, among others. Williams also reflects on missed opportunities, regrets, and lessons learned. Finally, she takes pride in CAJM's lasting contributions to building a more just and loving community in Charleston.
Feidin del Rosario Santana was born in Santo Domingo, the Dominican Republic in 1991. He moved with his family to New Jersey, NY when he was twelve years old. After high school graduation at the age of nineteen, he returned to his country to train at a baseball academy in rural San Pedro. He explains that for him this was a "life-changing experience" but after a physical injury, he had to quit and return to the USA where he struggled to adjust. Later, he went back to Punta Cana to work in the tourist industry. There he met the mother of his child and trained as a barber. A job opportunity in a barbershop brought him to North Charleston in 2013. On his way to work on the morning of Saturday, April 4th, 2015 Santana recorded the killing Walter Scott by North Charleston Police Officer Michael Slager. Realizing the magnitude of the event he had witnessed, he feared for his safety but decided to hand over the video to the Scott family prompting the arrest of Slager. Santana reflects about the following months, including dealing with the press and media outlets, being a witness in the trial, and becoming the target of hateful messages.
Timothy Grant was born in 1954 at the Naval Hospital in Charleston, South Carolina and grew up on Jackson Street on the East Side of Charleston. He recalls memories of the women that raised him: his mother, grandmother, and great-grandmother and their ties to the city. Grant talks about his affiliation with the Jackson Street Panthers, a street gang that in 1969 protected Mary Moultrie, a leader of the Hospital Strike, when she was forced to leave her residence and hide at the union hall. He shares his memories of the strike and its aftermath and remembers other older young organizers such as Robert Ford and John Reynolds. In the second part, the interview focuses on Grant’s experiences as a Black worker at the Street and Sidewalks Department of the City of Charleston and reflects about the importance of keeping the lessons of the past and to fight for workers’ rights.
Eréndira Fabela Estrada (b. 1963) was born in San Pedro, Coahuila, Mexico. Her large family, school, and participation in the Catholic Church youth groups shaped her life. When she was twenty years old, she arrived for the first time to Johns Island, South Carolina to visit her sister and brother-in-law. There, she met her future husband and father of her daughter who worked as a contractor for a local farmer. Soon, Fabela Estrada was working with him in the fields and helping to manage the administrative side of contracting seasonal agricultural workers. The couple divided their time between Johns Island and San Pedro but decided to settle down definitively when their daughter started school. Motivated to improve her English to help her girl with the school homework, Fabela Estrada began taking classes at the College of Charleston. She continued studying until she graduated with a Bachelor's degree in Spanish and Education. For twelve years, she has worked as a Spanish teacher at the Military Magnet Academy in the City of North Charleston. In the interview, Fabela Estrada reflects on her experiences working in the agricultural fields, her love for studying and teaching, and the difficulties and satisfactions she experienced by challenging her community traditional roles. Eréndira Fabela Estrada (1963) nació en San Pedro Coahuila, México y creció sin carencias ni lujos en el seno de una familia numerosa. Su familia, la escuela y la participación en los grupos juveniles de la iglesia católica dejaron una marca importante en su vida. A los veinte años llegó a Johns Island, Carolina del Sur para pasar un tiempo con su hermana y su cuñado que se habían radicado en la isla. Fue ahí donde conoció a su futuro esposo y padre de su hija que trabajaba como contratista para un ranchero local. Con él trabajó en todas las labores implicadas en el cuidado de los campos y la organización de los trabajadores. La pareja repartía su tiempo entre Johns Island y San Pedro, pero decidieron establecerse definitivamente cuando la hija de ambos comenzó la escuela. Motivada a capacitarse y mejorar su inglés para poder ayudar a la niña con las tareas escolares, Fabela Estrada comenzó a tomar clases en el College of Charleston. Poco a poco, continúo estudiando y se graduó con un Bachelor en español y educación. Por doce años se ha desempeñado como profesora de español en la escuela Military Magnet Academy en la Ciudad de North Charleston. En la entrevista, Fabela Estrada reflexiona acerca de sus experiencias trabajando en el campo, su amor por el estudio y la enseñanza y los desafíos que enfrentó para salirse de los roles tradicionales de su comunidad.
Theron Snype was born and raised in Downtown Charleston. In 1967, he graduated from Burke High School. In the interview, Snype remembers his experiences at Burke High School. He talks about his favorite English teachers, Ms. Doris Hazel and Ms. Altimeze McGriff, and his geometry teacher, Ms. Hazel Stewart. He describes Burke's positive environment and the abundance of activities available to students. Finally, he remembers the students that integrated Charleston Schools and states that activism was not promoted at Burke. He reflects on the limited understanding he and his friends had back then about the magnitude of the civil rights movement in Charleston. He also reflects on how he did not learn until he was older the importance the contribution of leaders like Septima Clark were in Charleston. He concludes with comments about how important his experiences at Burke were to helping him see a life beyond the segregated society he grew up in, and he expressed pride in what he and his fellow classmates went on to accomplish.
Doris Sander Lancaster was born in a house on Sullivan's Island, South Carolina, in 1928, and ever since has spent most of her life on the island. In this interview she recounts memories of childhood growing up including games, crabbing, and playing on the beach. She tells of the house near Station 24 where she and other family members grew up "fatherless." Doris details much of the relationships between the civilian population and Fort Moultrie Military Reservation. She recalls the initial reaction to the bombing of Pearl Harbor. She and other island girls then were recruited by the USO to dance with the ever-increasing number of servicemen in the area who were headed for the war. She tells of her emotional reaction to the newsreels showing the horrors of combat. Doris met her future husband, Bob, when he was stationed at the fort. They were married in 1948 and spent most of their married life on the island. A great deal of Doris's narrative surrounds the relationship with Stella Maris Catholic Church, the events that took place and the personalities involved. The interview ends with Doris Lancaster's reactions to the many changes that have occurred on Sullivan's Island over the 94 years of her life.
Melissa Moore (they/them) grew up in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina, and they earned a bachelor’s degree in sociology at the College of Charleston. In college, they got engaged with feminist and queer groups. When they were 22 years old, they joined the Alliance for Full Acceptance and were hired as its Assistant Director. Soon after, they joined SC Equality and were actively engaged in a campaign against the marriage amendment and other policies issues related to the LGBTQ+ community. Moore was approached by the board of We Are Family, an organization focused on LGBTQ+ and straight ally youth, and became its Executive Director. Moore takes pride in the organization's progress made under their tenure that includes opening the Close Case Thrift store and work to end homeliness in Charleston. Later Moore worked with Housing for All in Mt. Pleasant and at the time of the interview, they were WREN Lowcountry manager. In the interview, they reflect on their experience as a queer person growing up and living in South Carolina. They reflect on the progress made by the LGBTQ+ community as well as the limitations of their political demands when the demands do not include addressing poverty and access to housing and health care.
Vafides was born in 1921 in Hull, MA. He was a member of The Citadel class of 1943. He attended The Citadel at the beginning of World War II, leaving in 1943 to serve in the US Army as a paratrooper. He returned to complete his studies after the war ended. He was assigned to duty as part of a bazooka team in the 513th Parachute Infantry Regiment, Co. H, and deployed with his unit in the 17th Airborne Division to England in late 1944. The Division was alerted for Operation Market Garden but did not participate. When the German attack against Allied forces began in mid-December 1944 in the Ardennes in what is known as the Battle of the Bulge, Vafides was in England undergoing training. His entire division was ordered to France and moved by air and then by truck into Belgium near Bastogne where it joined the fighting as part of Gen. Patton's Third Army. While engaged near Flamierge, Belgium, Vafides was wounded and taken captive by the Germans and sent to a POW camp in Germany. He returned to Allied control when his camp was liberated in early 1945 and returned home. After college Vafides worked as a teacher until his retirement.
Vance L. Crouse is a retired Colonel in the United States Air Force. Born in Henderson, Tennessee in 1921, he was home-schooled, then attended a rural public school, and a junior college, Freede Hardeman College, during the Great Depression. His father worked as a carpenter as well as an auto mechanic and his mother was a teacher. His sister, following their mother’s footsteps, pursued a career as a school teacher. A chance to see Charles A. Lindbergh in Louisville, Kentucky, sparked a lifelong interest in airplanes. Crouse describes the experience, “We went up to visit my uncle in Louisville, Kentucky, and Charles A. Lindbergh came and landed there…he recently completed his transatlantic flight, and we got to see him and his Spirit of St. Louis airplane. And that made a lasting impression on me.” In 1932 after the passing of his mother, he and his father moved to Memphis, while his sister taught in rural schools across the country. It was during a Sunday afternoon visit to his three uncles on December 7, 1941 that Crouse heard a radio report of the attack on Pearl Harbor. He enlisted in the Army Air Corps shortly after his 21st birthday in 1942. Denied the opportunity for pilot-training due to his poor vision, Crouse was sent to Officer Candidate School at Yale University for basic and technical training. He was transferred to Greenville, South Carolina for the Replacement Training Unit then to Key Field in Meridian, Mississippi, and Mobile, Alabama. Crouse was stationed in Gushkara, in the Assam Valley, India, as part of a reconnaissance squadron. He was pulled out of his medical training and sent to Korea to serve as a doctor at Taegu and Seoul. Crouse was stationed in occupied Germany from 1960-1963.
This panel brought together for the first time in the City of Charleston a group of Jewish Cadets who shared their memories in a public forum (September 29, 2013). The program was possible thanks to the collaboration between the Jewish Studies Program at The College of Charleston and The Citadel. Martin Perlmutter introduced the program and Dr. Sam Hines introduced the moderator, Dr. Joelle Neulander. The event was dedicated to the memory of Maurice Fox, Citadel Class 1953. The panelists recall their experiences as Jewish cadets at The Citadel and reflect on how those experiences shaped their lives when they left the institution. All together the panelists experience span over seven decades. They provide a glimpse into the history of The Citadel from the WWII years to the present. The panelist include, Bernard Warshaw, Class of 1942, Bernard Solomon, Class of 1947, Les Bergen, Class of 1969, Steve Josias, Class of 1970, Alan Reyner, Class of 1972 and Jonathan Rosen, Class of 2014.
Wilson Thrower was born in Charlotte, North Carolina in 1922. He worked as an electrician at the Charleston Navy Yard before being drafted in 1943 and entering the Navy as an Apprentice Seaman on the USS Jenks. After demonstrating his knowledge of the destroyer escort's communications system, Jenks became an Electrician, Third Class. In this interview, Thrower recounts the capture of the German U-505, which proved vital to Allied code breaking operations. For serving in the submarine task force that captured the German U-boat, Thrower received a Presidential Unit Citation. After the War, he served in law enforcement and ran a series of businesses.
Burnet Maybank entered The Citadel in September 1941 at the urging of his father, who had agreed to fund his college expenses so long as he attended The Citadel. He reflects on his decision to enter the Citadel and his tour of duty in WWII. In September 1942 Maybank joined the Army Air Corps and served as a B-17 bomber pilot flying on around thirty-seven missions in the European Theater of WWII. Maybank discusses some of his most memorable missions, including flying over the Normandy beaches a few days after D-Day in 1944, in some of the earliest bombing missions over Berlin, a mission against a “secret” facility in Denmark. He tells of a fellow Citadel cadet’s plane, Bill Daniel’s, going down in the North Sea. For his war service he was awarded a Presidential Unit Citation, the Air Medal, and the Distinguished Flying Cross. After the war years he returned home to become a lawyer and later lieutenant governor of South Carolina. Maybank resides in Charleston.
Lutheran Pastor Thulisiwe "Thulie" Beresford was born in Vryheid, South Africa on February 2, 1962. The third of seven children, she grew up in a devoted Lutheran family under the racist system of the apartheid. At age of nine, Beresford and one of her brothers were sent to Swaziland to live with their maternal grandmother and continue their education. Beresford excelled in math and science and in 1984 she graduated with a Bachelor Degree in Biology and a concurrent Diploma in Education. She taught for two years in South Africa and after receiving a scholarship moved to the United States to study at Ohio University in Athens where she earned a Master Degree in Biology. She went back to South Africa for two years and returned to USA to attend the seminary. In this interview, Beresford explains the policies of racial segregation imposed for the apartheid and how they impacted the life of her family and community. She also recalls episodes of violence, persecution, and repression she witnessed when growing up. Beresford also describes her experiences as a South African immigrant in USA. Finally, she tells about her call to become a Lutheran minister and reflects about balancing her roles as a pastor, mother, and wife.
Elmire Raven was born in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1952 and moved to South Carolina in 1989. Since 1991 she has served as the Executive Director of My Sister's House, Inc., a nonprofit organization that provides services to domestic violence victims in the Lowcountry area. In this interview, Raven recounts her upbringing, her early awareness of discrimination and her work with the South Carolina Coalition Against Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault. She also reflects about motherhood, social justice, and what it means for her to be a feminist and a southern woman.
Willa Mae Freeman was born and lived most of her life on Johns Island. In this interview Freeman recalls growing up in a rural environment and learning to work on farming since early age. She also remembers her days at Promise Land School, a segregated school for black children. She describes the precarious school structure and the students' responsibilities and routines. When she was in fourth grade, Promise Land building was closed and all the students were transferred to Mt. Zion Elementary. Then, for the first time, they rode the school bus and had access to the bookmobile. Freeman reflects about the importance of education and expresses her concerns for the problems that happen at school nowadays.
James Young was born in Winnsboro, South Carolina in 1921. Young volunteered for the Army Reserves in 1942. After completing basic training in Miami Beach, Florida, he went to Shepherd Field, Texas for munitions training. He was sent to Las Vegas, Nevada, for gunnery school, then Dalhart, Texas, for combat crew training. At gunnery school, Young recalled firing at a target pulled by an airplane: “Each person had a different color of shells, and he could count his hits by whether they were yellow, black, green.” Stationed in Polebrook, England, Young served as a Technical Sergeant, tail gunner in the 8th Air Force, 351st Bomb Group Heavy, 509th Bomb Squadron from the March 6, 1944 to May 2, 1945. He flew 28 missions, the first of which was into Poland on Easter Sunday, April 9, 1944. He later flew missions over Poland, France, Germany, Luxembourg, and Belgium. In this interview, he recalls details of several of his missions and discusses the annual reunions he attends with the men with whom he served.
In this interview, Henry Rittenberg, a Citadel Graduate Class 1938, remembers his experiences as a Jewish cadet. At this time, about five hundred young men were part of the Corps of Cadets but only ten or twelve of them were Jewish. Catholics and Protestants were able to express their faith on campus, but Jewish cadets did not have that privilege. There were no organized Jewish services, a rabbi never visited the campus, and Jewish cadets had to request permission to leave for the High Holy Days. Moreover, The Citadel did not offer accommodations for the Jewish cadets to have kosher food or keep the Shabbat. However, Rittenberg reflects that these kind of religious issues were not very concerning among his peers, commenting they were not ignored but rather they were “under the radar”. In the interview, Rittenberg names other Jewish cadets that attended The Citadel in the 1930s and early 40s. Finally, Rittenberg tells about his participation on ad hoc committees for the Board of Visitors during the 1990s. In that role, he participated in important discussions such as the admission of women to the Corps and the filming of the movie Lords of Discipline based on Pat Conroy’s book of the same name.
John Martin Taylor (pronouns: He/His/Him) born in Baton Rouge, LA in 1949, discusses his youth, university years, his travels, various careers in art and the culinary world, his family, friends, lovers and his husband. His father was a scientist with the Manhattan Project who moved the family to Orangeburg, S.C. Taylor speaks of a happy outdoor childhood, with some African American friends in the segregated South and little awareness of gay life or issues. The family also summered at Hilton Head, S.C. before its development, giving Taylor firsthand experience with the land and its foodways. He attended the University of Georgia in Athens, Ga. at two different times, for undergraduate and graduate degrees. He speaks at length of the artistic circles there, including that of the musical group, The B-52s, whose first concerts he attended and with whom he remained friends, later describing their visit to the Charleston gay bar, Les Jardins. He came to Charleston, S.C. in 1975, left for the Virgin Islands, and lived in Paris, France and in Italy, pursuing a career as a visual artist and a photographer, eventually, becoming American Liaison and Food Editor of the French periodical ICI New York. Returning to Charleston, he had little to do with the local gay scene, feeling an equal attraction to men and women, or mostly to particular individuals who interested him. As his love for cooking grew, influenced by what he calls his strong “maternal instinct,” his childhood experience crabbing and fishing in the Lowcountry, his mother’s culinary skills, and his father’s interest in wines, he began to focus on a career. After learning the business in New York City, Taylor opened Hoppin’ John’s, a cookbook store in Charleston, and quickly became the recognized expert on Lowcountry and regional cooking and foodways, eventually publishing articles on the topic in local, regional and national publications. A serendipitous find of a manuscript cookbook from St. John’s Parish of Berkeley County prompted and nourished further research. After recovering from the damage done to his bookstore by Hurricane Hugo in 1989, Taylor published his first book, Hoppin’ John’s Lowcountry Cooking in 1992. He has published three books since then and mentored many while enjoying the friendship and respect of leading scholars in the field. Taylor notes the changes in the local culinary and restaurant scene, lauding many chefs and proprietors for their contributions. He and Mikel Lane Harrington were married in Washington, D.C. in 2010. Through Harrington’s work with the Peace Corps, the couple, based in Savannah, Ga. and Washington, D.C. have lived in various locations across the world.
Terry Cherry (pronouns: She/Her/Hers), white police officer, discusses the path of her life from birth in North Carolina, to education in California and elsewhere, to her service, in a number of capacities, as an out LGBTQ person in the Charleston, SC police force. She was born in Pinehurst, NC into a Methodist family. Her parents were both professors and very accepting and loving. Identifying as boy, she felt constricted by what society demanded of her, and went into therapy as a child to help with her anger at the situation. She attended UCLA, and when studying abroad in Australia, she reached a crisis when she nearly died from influenza. At her recovery, she decided to live as fully and honestly as possible. She came out to her parents, at first assuming she would be a disappointment and "imperfect," something her family totally rejected. At the Church of Christ-affiliated Pepperdine University, getting an MBA, she stressed LGBTQ issues and after graduating, she worked in the private sector before asking herself, "What can I do to make a memorable impact?" Turning to law enforcement, she went through the San Diego Police Academy training and in 2012 returned, hesitantly, to the Lowcountry where she has family. Expecting to find herself in a more conservative environment, she nevertheless lived openly in her daily life and work for the Charleston Police Force. She first served as a patrol officer on James and Johns Island, where she made an "investment" in learning the culture and heritage of the community, becoming a valued friend to many. She was officer of the year in 2017 and was among the first on the police force to participate in the Pride parade. Throughout the interview, Cherry speaks of the need to be oneself, to always expect the best of all situations, and others, and to ignore stereotypes, while working for social justice. She also notes that the Charleston Police Department, where she has worked as liaisons to the LGBTQ and Latinx communities, and now serves as the head of recruitment activities, has become a leader in the nation in diversity and inclusion, while not necessarily advertising the fact. She also gives a few brief vignettes of her professional life, referencing working the Emanuel AME massacre, talking a young lesbian out of suicide, and other incidents. She also discusses the city of Charleston's hate crimes ordinance.
Narrator_042 (Pronouns: He/Him/His), who requested the withholding of his name from the interview, discuses growing up in a small town in South Carolina as part of a financially "pretty well-off" blended family. At a young age, he began to notice that he was different. Realizing that he identified as gay, the narrator encountered resistance and hostility from family members. He recounts his experiences of starting to embrace his identity. In the process, he experienced "a lot of acceptance from friends," but at home, he realized "things were kind of shunned away or seen as just wrong," or even "demonic." He details his family's denial of his sexuality, their attempts to rid him of what they viewed as a "demon," and their attempts to maintain a strict home life structured around religion and scripture. This included monitoring his activity to prevent exposure to what they viewed as corrupting content on television and the internet. Despite such opposition, he periodically came out to his family, first at the age of thirteen, again at fifteen, and for a third time as a College of Charleston student. He describes in detail the reactions of the people closest to him, the actions taken by his family, and the challenges he continues to encounter with family members and how they have progressed over time. Note: At the request of the narrator, his name and other identifying details have been removed from the transcript, and the audio file of this oral history interview is not available. In lieu of a proper name, the speaker is referred to as Narrator_042, and other deletions made to the transcript are denoted in brackets.
In this interview Crystal Denise Helton (pronouns she, her, hers), a white program coordinator at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC), speaks of growing up in West Virginia, her awakening to her sexual identity, her experiences with friends, family and lovers, her marriage and divorce, her conversion to Judaism, and her reflections on herself and society. An only child growing up in with parents who were divorced, but still living together, Helton had a solitary youth, taking refuge in reading, offering escape from an alcoholic father, and a sometimes-inattentive mother. Closeted in high school, she nevertheless had a girlfriend who lived nearby and she avoided the censure of disapproving peers while attending a series of different churches and denominations. Helton first realized she was lesbian when she had a crush on a Sunday school teacher, and evolved a healthy attitude to her sexuality without the guidance or advice of others. Leaving home, near Princeton, West Virginia, Helton attended Marshall University and later lived in Lexington, KY where she switched from a PhD program in history to a masters program in library science, and where she was in a relationship with the woman who eventually became her wife. While she understood prejudice against gay people, Helton never felt much of it directed at her, commenting that her conversion to Judaism, completed at Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE), in Charleston, SC, has sparked more of a negative response from others than her sexuality. Her ex-wife joined her in the conversion experience and there was much resistance to this religious change in her spouse's family. The breakup and divorce (the couple had three varying marriage ceremonies, including a very positive experience at KKBE), was difficult for Helton, who did not instigate it. Calling her ex-wife the extrovert, and herself an introvert, Helton discusses her family of choice, including a long-time friend, and new ones made in a bocce league and among "murderinos", fans of the "My Favorite Murders" podcast. She speaks of learning patience in a romantic relationship, and discusses the greater ease with identity and gender fluidity she sees in people younger than she. She believes that being a member of the LGBTQ community has brought her insight into privilege, power, and prejudice in the larger society.
Interview with Thomas Pinckney Rutledge Rivers, long time Charleston resident living on the lower peninsula in the South of Broad neighborhood. Rivers recalls they joy of growing up South of Broad at 28 Gibbes St and 7 Orange Street and the change that took place over the past 80 years. His parents were both from established, long time Charleston families. Rivers grew up hunting in McClellanville and was an avid hunter his whole life. He went away to boarding school, attended Davidson College, went to medical school, joined the army, then came back to Charleston and started practicing as an OBGYN at Roper Hospital. Rivers has a lot of commentary on what the hospital was like years ago and how it has evolved since the 1960s. A particularly funny story he tells is that he delivered a baby with a dying quail in his back pocket after being called in to the hospital while hunting. He believes he has delivered 7,000 babies in Charleston over his lifetime. Rivers has fond memories of the Charleston he knew as a boy and fears what has become of the city today with new development and an influx of tourists and new residents. Interviewed by Anne Blessing in Mrs. Blessing's home on August 9, 2017. Recorded as part of HCF's "Changing Neighborhoods" series, made possible by a grant from the SC Humanities Commission.
Vanity Reid Deterville (she, her, hers), discusses her upbringing in Charleston, SC, college years spent in Atlanta, GA, and the challenges she faced as accepting herself and being accepted in society as an African American trans woman. Growing up in an extended religious family, Deterville knew she was different from most of her friends and family as she heeded the warning of her grandmother to not share her concept of her gender identity with most other people. Attending Morehouse College in Atlanta opened up new ways of expressing gender identity and sexual orientation for her, but conflicts with her family over these and other issues led to an unstable period in her life, when she experienced homelessness or near homelessness, financial problems and battles with drugs and dependency. She describes the various stages of self-expression she went through at Morehouse and the issues presenting feminine triggered at the all-male school and how over the years, there have been family rifts and reconciliations. She addresses what it was like to come out in Charleston, mentions the role the LGBTQ youth organization We Are Family played in the process and speaks a bit about the bar scene, articulating a stratification she noticed along class and racial lines._Deterville also speaks about local transgender issues, the segregated nature of LGBTQ life, and how many of her friends are more eager to attend Black Gay Pride events out of town rather than local gay pride events. She also notes the irony that people in the white community seem more empathetic on, and attuned to, transgender issues, than many in the people of color community. Yet white gay men tend to want to label and define her only as a drag performer and not accept her for her true status. She refers to a play "Sugar in the Grits" she wrote and performed for the local MOJA festival, a rare event that linked Gullah-Geechee heritage and LGBTQ life._In response to the question of what being LGBTQ has meant to her, she answers that it has led to "trailblazing," being constantly open to questioning normalcy, learning to love oneself, despite what one is taught, and being able to look at life in an a more nuanced and even more spiritual manner._
Interview with Herbert A. DeCosta, Jr., former trustee, about Historic Charleston Foundation, historic preservation in Charleston, and life in Charleston throughout the years. Mr. DeCosta discusses growing up in Charleston in the 1920s and 1930s and his role in the city's preservation movement. He recalls childhood memories of living on Smith Street and on Sullivan's Island and his school days, including his attendance at the Avery Normal Institute. DeCosta's grandfather founded DeCosta construction in the 1890s, and Herbert speaks about the many historic properties in Charleston the company restored during his time as head of the company, including work completed for Historic Charleston Foundation's Revolving Fund. He goes on to discuss his family's ancestry and his involvement in St. Mark's Church and the Brown Fellowship Society. Interviewed by Kitty Robinson at the Missroon House on June 24, 2003.
Nat Shulman was born in 1914 in Newark, New Jersey, to Bessie Tanzman and Abraham Shulman, who emigrated from Poland and Romania, respectively, in the early 1900s. Nat talks about his Jewish education at Adas Israel in Newark, his bar mitzvah, his mother’s preparations for the Sabbath, and his father’s produce business and wine-making avocation. Nat and his sister, Gertrude, and brother, Joseph (“Jerry”), grew up hearing Yiddish, Polish, and Russian spoken at home. Nat learned how to read and write Yiddish. In 1938, two years after graduating from Upsala College in East Orange, New Jersey, Nat married Lillian Rosenstein, also of Newark. They moved to Baltimore in the early 1940s, where Nat worked for the National Jewish Welfare Board (NJWB), one of the agencies that comprise United Service Organizations (USO). He describes the services the NJWB provided for the military men stationed in the Baltimore vicinity. He was transferred to Charleston, South Carolina, in 1943, where he and Lillian raised their children, Elaine, Sanford, and David. During the remainder of World War II, Nat coordinated with Jewish communities up and down the South Carolina coast to provide services and entertainment for Jewish military personnel. The NJWB sought to organize Jewish groups at the local level during peacetime as well, using the wartime model. The result in Charleston was the opening of the Jewish Community Center in September 1945 on St. Philip Street. Nat was its first director, a position he held for twenty-seven years. The interviewee discusses a number of topics regarding Charleston’s Jewish community: a failed attempt to organize a community center on George Street in the 1920s; relations among congregants of the Reform and Orthodox synagogues; distinctions made between Uptown Jews and Downtown Jews; how World War II, the Holocaust, and the State of Israel unified Jews; prejudice toward African Americans; school integration and the change in residential patterns that followed; memories of Joe Truere, Rabbi Jacob Raisin, and Rabbi Burton Padoll. Nat recalls what American Jews knew about what was happening to the Jews in Europe during the Second World War and comments on their response. He summarizes his efforts to fight discrimination against African Americans in the 1940s and ?50s; the founding of the Charleston Jewish Community Relations Committee in 1959; and the 1972 establishment of the Charleston Jewish Welfare Fund, later renamed the Charleston Jewish Federation (CJF). Nat details how the CJF has sponsored the settlement of more than 100 Russian refugees beginning in 1980, and he offers his view of what constitutes an antisemitic incident. Note: Special Collections, Addlestone Library, College of Charleston, is the repository for the Nat Shulman papers, the Jewish Community Center papers, the Charleston Jewish Community Relations Committee papers, and Charleston Jewish Federation publications.
Siblings Melvin Solomon, Frances Solomon Jacobson, and Naomi Solomon Friedman—three of five children of Sophie Prystowsky and Sam Solomon — are joined in this interview by Melvin’s wife, Judith Mendell Solomon, and Naomi’s husband, Morris Friedman. Sam Solomon (Checzewski was the family name) immigrated to the United States in 1902 from Zabludow, Russia. After working for a time in New York, Sam moved to Charleston, South Carolina, following the Prystowsky family, friends from the Old Country. He opened a wholesale dry goods store that offered credit to peddlers, and married Sophie Prystowsky. The siblings and their spouses tell stories that impart a sense of daily life, including descriptions of Sam and Sophie, various Prystowsky family members, and the African Americans who worked for them at home and in the store. For decades, Sam employed a black man in his business who learned to speak Yiddish with the customers. Melvin, Frances, and Naomi grew up on St. Philip Street, surrounded by cousins and other Jewish families. To escape the heat of the city, they spent summers at their beach house on Sullivan’s Island. They recall Joseph “Jew Joe” Truere, the Mazo family, and gathering minyans on demand in Sam’s King Street store. Melvin talks briefly about Brith Sholom and Beth Israel, the two Orthodox synagogues, before their merger, and the formation of Emanu-El, the Conservative congregation, in the mid-1950s. Judith, a New Jersey native who was not raised in a kosher household, describes her experiences as a new bride, trying to follow the rules of kashrut in the South. Morris and Naomi discuss the circumstances of their marriage and how their mothers’ points of view differed. Note: for related collections, see the Prystowsky-Feldman family papers, Mss. 1016, and the Solomon-Prystowsky family papers, Mss. 1013. See also interviews with Gertrude Sosnick Solomon (Mss. 1035-188 and Mss. 1035-193) and Shirley Feldman Prystowsky (Mss. 1035-508).
Rose Iseman Jacobs Webster begins this interview by reading excerpts from the Weinberg family history researched and written by Robert A. Weinberg. Rose’s mother, Edith Weinberg, was the daughter of Rosa Iseman and Abram Weinberg of Darlington, South Carolina. Edith and her siblings were raised Jewish. One of Abram’s brothers, Isaac, who also settled in Darlington, married a gentile, and they did not raise their children as Jews. Because Rosa did not approve of the intermarriage, the cousins were not close. Rose’s father, Theodore Cecil Jacobs, grew up in Kingstree, South Carolina, the eleventh of twelve children of German immigrants Mary Gewinner and Louis Jacobs. Louis, who arrived in Charleston, South Carolina, in 1859, according to a short memoir he wrote, served in Bachman’s Battery, Hampton Legion, in the Army of Northern Virginia during the Civil War. Reading from his account, Rose relates how he ended up in Kingstree after the war and lists the various positions he held in local government and the businesses he ran in Kingstree and Charleston. Rose, born in 1926, describes growing up in Kingstree with her older brother Harold, noting that they had very little exposure to Judaism. Although she had two good friends who were Jewish, she spent a lot of time with her Christian friends, including attending church services. Her father and one of his brothers owned a grocery store and farms with black and white sharecroppers. Rose, who attended Winthrop College, recalls her first job as a home demonstration agent in Darlington and Conway, South Carolina. She married Joe Webster, a Christian, in 1950, and their three children, Neal, Roseanne, and Ted, were born in Dillon, South Carolina. After her youngest was born, Rose converted and joined the Baptist Church. “I told Joe I wanted the children raised in his faith. I had felt sort of like a fish out of water in Kingstree, and I wanted them to have a feeling of belonging.” Joe joins Rose for a portion of the interview and talks about what they did with the farms they inherited from Rose’s father in the early 1960s, as well as the changes that occurred in the farming industry by the 1970s. Also present is co-interviewer Sadie Bogoslow Want, who married Rose’s cousin, LeRoy Manuel Want. For related materials in Special Collections, College of Charleston, see the Weinberg family papers, Mss. 1002; the Solomons and Weinberg family papers, Mss 1134; and the Weinberg and Moses family papers, Mss. 1135. Note: photocopies of the documents that Rose reads from in her interview are available in the Jewish Heritage Collection Fieldwork Files, Special Collections, College of Charleston.
Sam Rogol, born in 1914 to Gussie Roseman and David Rogol, talks about growing up in Williston, South Carolina, nearly forty miles east of Augusta, Georgia, where his maternal grandparents lived. Sam describes his father’s store in Williston, a dry goods business David ran from 1911 until his death fifty-two years later. The interviewee recalls the wholesalers his father patronized and the drummers who came through town, hoping to sell their wares. A number of Jewish families lived in Williston or in nearby towns; Sam remembers the Bergers, Gaisers, Garbers, Mazurskys, Shapiros, and Wengrows. He discusses the Great Depression and speculates as to why his father fared as well as he did. The Rogols didn’t keep kosher, but observed the Sabbath at home and attended High Holiday services in Augusta, where Sam also studied for his bar mitzvah. After graduating from law school in the late 1930s, Sam and his first wife, Lillian Katz, settled in Darlington, South Carolina, where Sam worked for Samuel Want. Rogol was drafted by the army during World War II and served as a court martial clerk. He then graduated from Officer Candidate School and was assigned to the war crime trials in Japan. After discharge from the army, he returned to Darlington and Want’s law practice, leaving it to open his own office upon Want’s death in December 1953. When the Rogols moved to Darlington, there were established Jewish congregations in Darlington and Florence (about ten miles to the southeast), but neither had a building. Sam and Lillian tended to go to Florence for services since the congregation had a younger membership. Sam observes that after World War II ended, the city of Florence expanded—and with it the Jewish population—while the Darlington congregation began to shrink. When Florence’s Beth Israel built a synagogue in 1949, the Rogols joined the congregation. Sam remarks on the status of the congregation at the time of the interview and discusses his involvement in civic affairs in and around Darlington, noting he has not experienced antisemitism. Sam talks about his son, Marshall, and daughter, Martha, and Lillian’s illness that led to her death in 1974. Sam’s second wife, Beatrice “Bea” Katz Sodden Rogol, who joins him for a portion of the interview, is Lillian’s cousin. The interviewee comments on the Darlington school system and the degree to which it remains segregated. Regarding Jewish involvement in civil rights: “We Jews kept quiet. We didn’t stick our neck out for the blacks.”
Willy Moritz Adler was born in 1920 in Altona, Germany, a suburb of Hamburg that he describes as "a very liberal suburb and it came in handy when Hitler came to power." Willy discusses his family and life in Altona after Hitler became chancellor of Germany in 1933. He was one of four children of Bertha Teller, a Romanian, and Max Adler, who was from Poland. Max was in the egg business and had developed many relationships that proved beneficial when he later needed help keeping his family safe. Willy attended Talmud Torah Realschule, a sort of Jewish day school run by Arthur Spier, and became bar mitzvah before the family went into hiding to evade the Nazis. Initially, Willy and his parents were hidden by Christians for about nine months. "I was very thankful to our Christian neighbors who hid us. There were thousands of them. I don't feel they get enough credit, because they were gut neshomehs [good souls]." At one point, Willy was caught in a roundup and sent to a concentration camp in the Fuhlsbuttel section of Hamburg. Max used his connections with acquaintances who were stormtroopers and arranged his son's release about two months later. Willy lost his brother Moshe and sister Margrit in the Holocaust. His brother Dovid was the first in the family to get out of Germany. Willy followed and then Bertha and Max, who, having set aside emergency money, bought their way out with the assistance of a rich man in Hamburg. The four remaining Adlers found themselves, first, in Perth Amboy, New Jersey, where they had cousins, and then Brooklyn, New York. Willy, dreaming of killing Hitler, volunteered for the army after the United States entered World War II. Initially, he was assigned to a combat unit, but once officials discovered his background, he became an interrogator of German prisoners at Fort Jackson in Columbia, South Carolina. Willy recounts how he met his wife, Irma Sachs of Brooklyn, New York. The couple raised three children, Roger, Vicki, and Lauri, in New York City, where Willy owned a restaurant and bar called Artie's Place. The interviewee recalls several trips that he has made to Germany, courtesy of the German government, to speak to schoolchildren and other interested parties. Willy expresses his feelings about the United States: "What is there not to like about this country? It took us in. It gave us a home. To me, this is Eretz Israel." For a related collection, see the Willy Adler papers, Mss. 1065-028, Special Collections, College of Charleston.
Edie Hirsch Rubin is the eldest of two children of Miriam Braun and Sigmund Hirsch, Romanians who fled Europe in early 1939. Edie describes her parents’ emigration by ship to Palestine, where they joined her mother’s cousin in Kibbutz Dan in the Golan. A couple of years later, they moved to Haifa and, in 1941, Edie was born; her sister, Ronite, was born in 1945. Edie talks about conditions in Haifa while growing up. Housing and food were scarce, tensions ran high, and they often sought refuge in bomb shelters during nighttime shelling of the city. She recalls feeling sad and acutely aware, as a child, of having almost no extended family. Her father had encouraged family members to leave Europe, to no avail, and most were killed in the Holocaust. Edie’s sadness was compounded by her lack of knowledge about the relatives who were lost; her parents did not share their memories with her or her sister. In 1952, the Hirsches moved to Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Edie discusses the move and how the family adjusted to a new country. She met her husband, Joseph Rubin, in Montreal, and they married in 1961. Joseph’s profession as a cardiothoracic surgeon brought the Rubins to the United States. They raised their four children in Augusta, Georgia, and retired in Charleston, South Carolina. Edie worked in special education. She has always tried to live her life the way her father taught her—give back to the community and be grateful for what you have. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.” Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Blanche Weintraub Wine and her daughter Dana Wine Johnson discuss how the experiences of Blanche's parents as Holocaust survivors have shaped their lives. Blanche, the oldest of six children, explains how Guta Blas and Leon Weintraub met in Wierzbnik, Poland, where they were incarcerated during World War II, and how they reconnected after liberation and ended up in Charleston, South Carolina. Central to Guta and Leon's story is sixteen-year-old Guta's brazen attack on a German officer just as she and other Jews, including her mother, were about to be shot. The force of Guta's personality is a recurring theme throughout the interview. Blanche recalls her mother telling her she was a replacement for her grandmothers, which she says didn't feel like that much of a burden, "but certainly, I knew there were certain things expected of me." She adds, "I was obligated to be the best I could be because . . . I was the product of two special people." Blanche describes how her parents introduced their memories to her as a young girl in an "age-appropriate" manner, providing greater detail as she got older. She became more emotional about her parents' experiences as an adult, when she was old enough to understand the "depth of suffering." Blanche acknowledges she had difficulty fitting in with Charleston's Jewish community and was lonely at times. She was aware that the other Jewish children were surrounded by extended family, something the Weintraubs were lacking. Dana says her experience is similar to her mother's in that she heard about the Holocaust from a young age and her sensitivity to it increased as she got older. She tells her grandmother's story whenever she is given the opportunity. She believes it's important to keep sharing stories so that the lessons of the Holocaust are not forgotten as the number of survivors diminishes. Blanche considers her negative feelings toward Poland and the Polish people, while Dana eagerly outlines her plan to visit Poland and retrace her grandparents' steps. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, "The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature." Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
David Moise Rosenberg is joined by his mother, Anita Moise Rosefield Rosenberg, in this interview, recorded in his place of business, West Side Deli, in Charleston, South Carolina. Keeping kosher is the focus of the conversation, a practice that was not observed in the family home when David was growing up in the 1960s and '70s. The Rosenbergs were members of Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE) in Charleston, which David describes as a "very liberal Reform temple." During his college years, he "had no interest in religion of any sort." His wife, Marcie, who grew up in a Conservative synagogue and wanted to keep kosher, sparked his interest in Judaism. David, a restaurateur, and Marcie, a chef, bought Alex and Lila Lash's kosher meat business and, in January 1992, opened West Side Deli, a market, restaurant, and delicatessen. David talks about their clientele?who they are, and who, among Charleston's Orthodox, Conservative, and Reform Jews, are keeping kosher. David explains why he and Marcie think it's important to keep a kosher home, a process that was gradual for them, and he responds to the question, "how [do] you fit being observant in with being religious?" Anita, who grew up in Sumter, South Carolina, in the 1940s and '50s, and received a Classical Reform education at Temple Sinai, notes that she knew "absolutely nothing" about keeping kosher as a child. Her mother's ancestors can be traced in America to the 1700s; the family had been in Sumter for generations and were fully adapted to local foodways. When she was growing up, Anita's family "ate everything." Yet she describes a "very strong Jewish upbringing" and her deep involvement with KKBE, the Jewish Community Center, and other Jewish organizations. She does not keep kosher, but says, "I don't eat anything that walked on four legs." Anita discusses the family history of her husband, Ira Rosenberg, and his preferences in regard to kashrut. She sees that Reform Jews, nationwide, are becoming more traditional. "I think, probably, if Reform had been at the particular stage that it is now, in terms of the traditional trappings, the Conservative Movement would have had a hard time getting a foothold." She and Ira would have loved to settle in Sumter but decided to raise their children in Charleston, where their children "would have a much better chance of being Jewish and having a Jewish social life and marrying Jewish and continuing what was very important to us." For 2019 interviews with Anita, see Mss. 1035-554 and Mss. 1035-555. For Anita's 2016 interviews with her husband, Ira Rosenberg, see Mss. 1035-452 and Mss. 1035-461. For a 1995 interview with Anita's mother, Virginia Moise Rosefield, see Mss. 1035-007.
Richard Weintraub was born in Charleston, South Carolina, the fourth of six children, to Guta Blas and Leon Weintraub, both Holocaust survivors. He relates some details of his parents’ story, in particular Guta’s daring attack on a German officer after being told she and a group of people that included her mother were about to be shot. Richard doesn’t recall his father ever talking about his wartime experiences. Guta, however, “could talk about it anytime, anywhere, to anybody.” Richard believes it was cathartic for her, but says “I’m convinced she never really got it out of her system.” He considers his response, as a child, to hearing his mother’s stories, noting he “never felt any residual effect of their experiences.” Richard describes his childhood as normal and thinks Guta was overprotective of him, more so than his siblings. He explains why he think it’s important to contribute to Holocaust awareness and to speak out against injustice. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.” Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
William Lindsay Koob III (b. 1946) is a Citadel graduate (1968) who served fourteen years in US Army intelligence, rising to the rank of Major. While stationed at the Pentagon in 1987, he admitted under interrogation to being gay and was forced to resign his commission. A short time later, he came out to his parents and brother: “I told the whole story, and by that time I was in tears. My brother said a few things, and basically,everyone sat and waited for my father to respond--the retired army colonel. Here I was, the third generation of my family to serve in the military. But, my dad just kind of sat there, looking down at the table. After a while, he just got up from the table, and he walked around, and he pulled me to my feet and said, ‘Son, I don't like it, I don't understand it. I’m going to have to think about this for a long time, but you're my son and I love you.’ Could I have asked for anything more? No.” Koob further reported that his Citadel classmates, following the leadership of their company commander, have been accepting of his homosexuality: “I am still one of the brotherhood. And, for that, I will be eternally grateful.” Koob, who resides in Ladson, South Carolina, is an accomplished classical music critic and journalist.
Bobby Richardson was born in Sumter, South Carolina on August 19, 1935. While playing high school and American Legion baseball, he was discovered by the New York Yankees and after his high school graduation he joined them. He played two years on the Yankees' minor league farm team and at nineteen he participated in his first professional game. Richardson played with the Yankees for ten years from 1955 to 1966 and won nine out of ten World Series. Richardson earned several awards and holds still-standing records. Following his retirement from professional baseball Richardson coached the University of South Carolina Gamecocks from 1970-1976. In the interview Richardson recalls his friendships with baseball legends Mickey Mantle and Roger Maris; he shares his opinions about the present-day game of baseball, including length of the season, finances, and steroid use. Finally he reflects about the importance of his faith and the impact it has on his personal and professional life. When asked about his best year in baseball he choose 1962, stating "It was just one of those years when everything seemed to go my way."
Radio host and producer Osei Terry Chandler was born in Brooklyn, New York in 1946. His father was a musician and his mother loved listening to music. Growing up in his multicultural city, he was exposed to all kinds of music. As a teenager, he joined his high school radio and mixed music at parties. He moved to Jacksonville, Illinois to attend MacMurray College and there continued DJing and working for the college radio. After graduation, he returned to New York to support his younger brothers and there he met and fell in love with Sadeeka Joyner, a young woman from Ridgeville SC, who would become his wife and the mother of his three children. In 1977, Chandler relocated to Charleston. Soon after, he found an opportunity to work on a jazz radio program replacing the host Tony Robertson. Later he focused mostly on reggae and Caribbean music. His program Roots Musik Karamu has been on the air in SC Public Radio since 1979. In the interview, Chandler recalls some of the most memorable moments of his career and reflects about the evolution of the music scene in Charleston. Finally, he states he has had a joyful life sharing his work with musicians and friends and explains that all the aspects of his life, family, his work as an educator and the music, are tied together. Mostly he always has wanted to share music that brings positive feelings and thoughts that are uplifting for the community.
Galen Hudson, owner of Monster Music and Movies Store, was born in Richmond, Virginia in 1967 and he grew up in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. His earliest musical memories relate to his love for bagpipes and drums and the music of his Catholic grade school. He remembers the first record he bought- Steve Miller Band, Fly Like an Eagle when he was just a nine-year-old kid. He got his first job in a books and records store when he was a teenager. After graduating from college with a Bachelor in Psychology, he went to work for a retail music and entertainment store chain, Record Bar, in Chapel Hill. Later, he moved with his girlfriend to Charleston where he continued working with record stores, first at Manifest Discs and Tapes and later at Cats Music. In the interview, Hudson talks about the negative impact that the big boxes commercial model and the early file-sharing services had on the records business. However, he argues small local stores are resilient and have learned to adjust. He talks about Record Store Day, an initiative started by of a coalition of independent record stores fifteen years ago. He states his store and the Record Store Day are successful thanks to the Charleston community's cultural vibrancy and support.
Musician and art entrepreneur Leah Suárez was born on August 12, 1981, in Greenwood South Carolina. She grew up in Charleston with her parents and three brothers and her childhood activities revolved around soccer and music. As early musical experiences, she remembers singing with her mother the mixed tapes her brother created for her. Suárez formal musical training started in middle school when she joined the school band and learned to play the euphonium. She received a scholarship to study the instrument at George Mason University College but she dropped out due to health problems. She returned to South Carolina and enrolled at the College of Charleston where she focused on vocals. At the age of twenty-four, she participated in the Copenhagen Jazz Festival and lived in Europe for six months. Back in Charleston, with the support of her mentor and friend, Jack McCray co-founded Jazz Artists of Charleston (JAC) becoming the organization Executive Director and the co-producer the Charleston Jazz Orchestra. In the interview, Suárez explains that her life experiences and the issues affecting her community shaped her voice and art. She reflects about the challenges and rewards of being a musician entrepreneur in Charleston, her work with other Charleston musicians, and the importance of re-connecting with her Latino roots.
Songwriter, singer, and guitarist Eddie Bush was born in Princeton, a small rural town in Indiana, in 1965 and he has lived in the Lowcountry since the early 70s. When he was four years old, his father taught him basic guitar chords and since then he never stopped learning and perfecting his craft. In the interview, Bush talks about the musicians that influenced him, remembers his teen years playing in Charleston and reflects about the evolution of Charleston music scene. Bush recalls some of the most memorable moments of his career such as touring with Eric Johnson, becoming a member of the harmony group One Flew South, standing on a stage by John Mellencamp and Willie Nelson, designing his own guitar and the overwhelming public response he received for his songs "Spirit of America" and "The Thin Blue Line." Finally, he discusses the challenges of making a living as a musician in the time of the internet and takes pride in his work as a guitar teacher. Teaching gives him the opportunity to nurture young talents and share his values as a musician.
Vocalist Aisha Kenyetta (a.k.a Aisha Frazier) was born in 1980, in Monetta, South Carolina. Before going to college, her life revolved around family and church activities. Kenyetta describes herself as a freelance vocalist with a powerful voice: "I'm a power singer... but when I sing, my diction is rhythmic. My voice is an extension of the percussion instruments. It's not—I'm not the violin. I'm the bass." She performs with her own band AmpSquared and several other such as Super Deluxe, Plane Jane, and the musician collective Emerald Empire. Additionally, she is the North Charleston Seacoast Church's Worship Leader. In the interview, Kenyetta discusses balancing family, day work, and music career and states she is grateful for the many opportunities to perform. At the time of the interview, Kenyetta was writing her own material.
Saxophonist Abe White was born in downtown Charleston in 1935. He attended Burke High and there he realized he could be a musician. Soon, with almost no training, he started playing at the local bars in Reynolds Avenue in North Charleston and in downtown Charleston. The job allowed him to make money and support his mother financially but also exposed him to the nightlife dangers. After graduating from high school, White joined the Air Force in administrative positions. He was stationed in Texas, Colorado, California, Florida, Germany, and Thailand. On each place, after his office hours, he pursued opportunities to play. When he returned to the civil life, he started his own business, "The Abe White Affair". In the interview, White reflects about his music and career and the long journey that took him from playing at armors and bars to his performances in local concerts and the Piccolo Spoleto Festival.
Anne Marie Gilliard (b. 1928) was born in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina; her father was a farmer and her mother a seamstress and washerwoman. Gilliard attended school until fourth grade and soon after started working with her mother mending and ironing clothes. In the interview, she remembers going with her sick sister to the Cannon Hospital in downtown Charleston: the trip would take all day; the building was old and dilapidated, but the nurses were kind and professional. Gilliard reflects about the penuries of living in Charleston and negotiating the relationships with white residents but also with upper-class blacks. She states, people from the rural areas distrusted both, white and black doctors and the medications they prescribed. Gilliard recalls she was a teenager when she discovered the places for dancing and drinking. She met a musician from Chicago and started singing in clubs, but when she got pregnant, he abandoned her. Later she got married to another man and had another son. The family relocated on Awendaw and she rarely made it back to Charleston.
The Mayor of Charleston discusses the Making Cities Livable International Conference in Charleston in February 2000. He emphasizes the importance of farmers and farmers' markets in Charleston. Riley explains the implementation of an urban growth boundary on John?s Island, which prevents any urban or suburban type developments beyond the boundary. Riley suggests that the urban growth boundary protects farmers from the infringement of developers.
David Cosgrove?s parents both came to America in 1964 and met in Elizabeth, New Jersey. David's parents are from rural areas in County Galway and County Mayo. Davd's father lived in Ireland until he was twenty two years old, when he moved to London with his brother, and David's mother came to America straight from Ireland at the age of nineteen. He has been to Ireland several times, as his parents regularly took him and his four brothers over to their hometowns during his childhood. David takes care to discuss similarities and differences between life and politics in Ireland and Charleston.
Cheryl Daniels was born in Jersey City, New Jersey. Both of Cheryl?s parents were also born in Jersey City and their parents immigrated from Galway and Cork. Cheryl?s grandparents initially immigrated to America for better job opportunities. She discusses their journey to Americanize themselves upon entering the country by changing their names. She discusses the influence of Catholicism on her family and her public school education experience in America. Cheryl has lived in New Jersey, Colorado, and South Carolina.
Jeanne Chirdon discusses her experience with Irish heritage and the journey of her family?s immigration from Ireland. After her great great grandparents immigrated from Ireland, they settled in Pennsylvania. Some of her family traveled through the port in Cork, Ireland and most of her family immigrated through Ellis Island, New York. One of seven siblings, Jeanne grew up Roman Catholic and discusses Catholic traditions and how they have influenced her life. Jeanne shares the role of Irish music in her life, which developed from her relationship with "the Toms" at the age of 16. Music, for Jeanne, influenced her sense of community and comfort in Irish culture. After living in Cork, Ireland from 2003-2006, Jeanne moved to Asheville for graduate school, and later moved to Charleston with her husband. She plays the banjo, and is very involved in the Irish music scene in Charleston.
United Methodist Church minister James Ellis Griffeth (b. 1942) grew up in Greenville, S.C. He attended Wofford College and later Duke Divinity School in Durham, NC. He worked as a chaplain with the Greenville Health System for twenty-four years until his retirement in 1998. In the interview, Griffeth discusses his association with South Carolina Clergy Consultation Service for Problem Pregnancies (SCCCS) in Greenville. He explains why he became involved and details the problems women requiring counsel faced during that time in South Carolina. Finally, he reflects on his own spiritual beliefs regarding abortion.
Interview with Bill and Suzanne McIntosh, long-time owners of 66 Anson Street (Chazal House), who reminisce about their home and the changes in the Ansonborough neighborhood that they have witnessed over the past 50+ plus years. Mr. McIntosh was a long-time Charlestonian who descended from Mary Fisher Bailey Cross, a Quaker, who came to Charleston in 1680. He grew up on Greenhill Street and later lived on New and Broad Streets. He went to the Craft School and High School of Charleston. He owned a successful travel agency on Broad Street and was the president of the Preservation Society during the "Omni [now Charleston Place] controversies." Mrs. McIntosh is from New Orleans where they met when both were in college. Mrs. McIntosh worked for the Evening Post. They purchased 66 Anson Street from Historic Charleston Foundation in 1961 through its Ansonborough Rehabilitation Project. They bought the house because as preservationists they wanted to restore a house. Also the house was inexpensive and they wanted a house with a yard. They had followed the lead of Peter Manigualt (Evening Post Industries) who had previously purchased a house in Ansonborough. Within eight years after they bought the house, at least 8 other Evening Post/News & Courier staff bought homes in Ansonborough, and as word spread, many others got excited and moved there. Repairing, restoring, and renovating the house has been an ongoing process, starting when the McIntoshes cleared out sand on the ground that had reached the front steps, added a new roof, and installed electricity and plumbing. Herbert DeCosta did the work and also advised on the interiors. Through the Ansonborough Rehabilitation Project under Frances Edmunds's leadership, Ansonborough became one of the most desirable neighborhoods in Charleston. Regarding neighborhood conditions and changes, like other homes in Ansonborough, 66 Anson Street was in deteriorated and neglected condition when the McIntoshes bought it. Many people thought the area was a dangerous slum but "many didn't see the neighborhood for how good it was … It was a poor community, not a slum … After World War II there wasn't any money" so the homes slowly became run down and weren't repaired. There had been corner grocery stores which were essential as most residents didn't have cars. (The corner stores were converted to residential during the Ansonborough Rehabilitation Project.) Many new Ansonborough homeowners were young couples before they had children. They socialized and shared information, eventually forming the Ansonborough Neighborhood Association. Ansonborough was a close community but has changed significantly over the years. Mr. and Mrs. McIntosh are the only original ARP homeowners living in the borough and they don't know many of their neighbors. Tourism has had an impact on Ansonborough, largely that of the carriage tours which Mr. and Mrs. McIntosh have not liked since the earliest tours. The rising value of homes has made it more expensive to live and maintain a house; almost all of the McIntosh's former neighbors have moved. There are also many part-time residents, which has changed the character of the neighborhood. Interviewed by Katherine Pemberton on April 21, 2016 at the McIntosh's home at 66 Anson Street.
Interview by Valerie Perry of Arthur Lawrence who lives in Charleston's West Side. Mr. Lawrence reminisces about growing up on the West Side when it was primarily an African-American community. He recalls day-to-day life in the West Side, referring to businesses, grocery and corner stores, restaurants, movie theaters, and hotels/boarding houses. He also talks about the changes to both Charleston and the West Side community and reflects on gentrification, segregation, integration, housing, and heirs' rights, about the roles of hotels for African-American visitors during segregation. Mr. Lawrence, who was president of the neighborhood association for 20 years, worked with Mayor Riley and the Chief of Police on efforts to improve the community. He discusses the efforts and its successes. He also touches upon the importance of the church in the community. Grants from both the South Carolina Humanities Commission and the Employees Community Fund of Boeing allowed HCF to proceed with this initiative and several oral history interviews have been conducted that focus on specific neighborhoods and the changes these residents have experienced over time.
Interview by April Wood of Gladys G. Harvey, a woman who grew up in the North Central neighborhood. Her father was carpenter and also a pastor of Gethsemane Church and her son is the current pastor of the church. Ms. Harvey describes her experience growing up as a pastor's daughter and how her father was very protective of her and her siblings. She recalls shopping for clothes and also the neighborhood grocery stores. She also discusses the Charleston Hospital Workers strike and how she felt when Martin Luther King was killed, and about her having gotten pregnant at 16 and had to leave Burke High School for a private school in Denmark, SC. She reminisces about lunches after church on Sundays and how this was the biggest event of the week. There was a lot of cross over between Gethsemane Baptist Church and New Israel Reformed Episcopal Church as neighbors, especially after Sunday services. Ms. Harvey has had the opportunity to travel a lot in more recent years and has enjoyed this opportunity. Grants from both the South Carolina Humanities Commission and the Employees Community Fund of Boeing allowed HCF to proceed with this initiative and several oral history interviews have been conducted that focus on specific neighborhoods and the changes these residents have experienced over time.
Interview by April Wood of Erica and Dan Lesesne who purchased their home on Warren Street in 1989 from Historic Charleston Foundation through its Home Ownership Program (revolving fund). They are now some of the longest-term residents in the neighborhood in Radciffborough. The Lesesnes talk about the changes they have observed in the neighborhood including the demographics. For example, there had been many more older families who lived in there but they have moved out, and also are fewer African-American families than there used to be. They also describe the neighborhood as eclectic, which appealed to them. They discuss their experience purchasing the house from HCF and how they appreciate that it is protected by a covenant. They reminisce about Charleston architect Randolph Martz and also about Robert Ballard, who was the president of the neighborhood association and very involved in civic affairs. The Lesesnes also discuss their backgrounds. Mrs. Lesesne was an English teacher at Porter Gaud and an acting teacher. They also talk about spearheading an effort to preserve the family cemetery on Daniel Island. Grants from both the South Carolina Humanities Commission and the Employees Community Fund of Boeing allowed HCF to proceed with this initiative and several oral history interviews have been conducted that focus on specific neighborhoods and the changes these residents have experienced over time.
Vivian Cleary, 64, was born in Dublin, Ireland. He shares stories about life in the Northside of Dublin. Vivian lived in Dublin until he was three years old when his parents moved to Birmingham, England, where he lived until the age of 17. Vivian shares experiences of family holidays in Ireland. Vivian came to Charleston twenty years ago and discusses how different life is in America. He discusses political issues with America during this time along with the process for applying for permanent residency. Vivian is also able to shed light on historical events in Ireland, such as experiences with the IRA, and separation of Northern Ireland and the Republic.
Sunshine Goodman (pronouns: She/Her/Hers) discusses life experiences, spirituality, work in the beauty industry, her philosophy and attitude to life and her assumption of the role as a “self-proclaimed ambassador of authenticity.” Growing up in Roanoke, VA, Goodman spent time as a youth with her mother’s family in Charleston, SC. Bullied in school for appearing feminine and steered away from coming out in a small conservative town, Goodman left after high school to live with an aunt in Charleston. First working in women’s fashion stores, Goodman then became an apprentice with a stylist to gain a barber’s license. While pursuing a strong sense of personal style and founding a brand called Celebritimage, Goodman also searched for the most authentic way of living and manifesting a God-given individuality. While getting both positive and negative feedback for the change she made in her appearance, Goodman refused to be defined by an image, instead feeling that “everything I do...is for the benefit of other people. Even the way I look is not just for me.” Goodman discusses her feelings about God’s watching out for all, her experiences with angels, numerology, and prophetic voices telling her truths about others and herself. It is a gift she uses to help others find confidence, their true calling, and to embrace their bodies and sexuality, also the theme of her book Three Seasons of Life: Discovery, Believe, Faith. Living briefly in Los Angeles, Goodman speaks of being gender fluid and identifying with the trans community, saying that all are capable of transformation. In response to questions, she addresses homophobia within the African American and African American religious communities, prejudice within the LGBTQ community, and she describes many Charleston bars such as Dudley’s, Pantheon, the Cure, and others, especially the once Black-friendly Déjà Vu. She notes the positive effects of increasing LGBTQ visibility yet thinks that it drives some back into hiding for fear of being identified with it. While Goodman uses social media to help influence people to embrace their true selves, she laments the abuse of dating apps. She concludes the interview with her thoughts on gentrification in Charleston, and the need of leaving a legacy, especially being Black and gay. Note: This interview was conducted when the narrator preferred male pronouns. The narrator now uses she/her pronouns and requested they be changed. The pronouns were substituted and are bracketed in the transcript, but they were not altered, or removed, from the audio file.
Stephen “Steve” Cagle (pronouns: He/Him/His) discusses his upbringing in North Carolina, education as a pharmacist, service in the armed forces, his experiences as a gay man in the South, abroad and in California, and eventually opening a gay bed and breakfast with his domestic partner, Charles S. Holt, at Folly Beach, SC. Born in Concord NC, he grew up with an ailing father who died young, and a mother who struggled to find her son positive male role models. Knowing he was gay from an early age, Cagle, while having sexual experiences, kept quiet about his orientation in his hometown where such things were not discussed, but not necessarily condemned. He had somewhat closeted affairs when he attended pharmacy school at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Drafted into the army, Cagle, wanting to serve his country to fulfill his father’s inability to do so, found a fairly tolerant attitude to gays in the military. Despite others being out, he was more reserved, yet he mentions sexual experiences at bases at home and abroad in his service in northern Italy. After leaving the service Cagle lived in Henderson, NC, and then in Charlotte, NC, working as a pharmacist. He describes a gay bar in Charlotte sharing a site with a Denny’s Restaurant and explains the allure and dangers of anonymous sex in rest stops on the Interstate 85 Highway corridor in North Carolina, mentioning a Highway Patrolman who frequented those sites. Having been raised an only child and feeling he lacked social skills in befriending people, Cagle did find relationships, eventually falling in love with a married US Marine who suggested Cagle move to California in 1977 to be near him. There, the affair ended, as Cagle knew it would, but he met Charles (Chuck) Holt, who worked in Los Angeles, reading film scripts and crossing paths with celebrities such as Liberace and Rock Hudson. The men became a couple, and they began to explore their options in 1986 after Holt discovered he was HIV positive. The couple pulled up stakes, began an extended road trip across the country, guided by Damron’s Gay Guides, and ended up founding and running the gay Charleston Bed and Breakfast at Folly Beach. Cagle discusses the place’s importance, its success, the friendly acceptance it met on Folly Beach, also mentioning Hurricane Hugo, and how others, including his mother, came to accept him and help run the B and B after Holt’s death in 1995. Cagle sold the B and B, retired from the Ralph Johnson Veterans Administration Hospital and now lives in Charleston with his husband John Meffert.
Pat Patterson (pronouns: He/Him/His) speaks of family life, childhood, growing up, coming out, his political activism through drag performance, interactions with the Methodist Church, and his perceptions of the LGBTQ community. Born and reared in a loving and accepting family environment in Spartanburg, SC, he attended Wofford College, the 37th family member to do so. “I’m a Palmetto tree with fairly deep roots,” he notes. He came out in graduate school at the University of SC, and speaks about the founding of its Bisexual Gay and Lesbian Association (BGLA) and how he assumed his drag persona Patti O’Furniture, “a bully pulpit to raise awareness,” on a dare. At various points in the interview, Patterson speaks of the stratification of the LGBTQ community (“part of our charm and part of our problem”), with most of the focus on Charleston, identifying the conservative “blazer gays” who practice “an odd social decorum” at private parties, the “SIN” or service industry gays who are more out, and other socially and geographically distanced groups. He speaks of racism, and racial and trans insensitivity, the difference between the Charleston Pride and the Columbia, SC-based South Carolina Pride organizations, the gay rugby team, the Charleston Blockade, and K. J. Ivery, once a student of his and now an out trans officer of the Charleston Police Department. Having first done AIDS work in Columbia, SC with his friend Bill Edens, he became involved with the SC Equality Coalition, and he mentions a variety of other LGBTQ organizations and leaders. He began commuting to Charleston to perform drag at the bar Patrick’s, eventually moving there, arranging performances at Dudley’s, and he now also performs at brunches, breweries and bingo, usually emceeing, giving his tips from the audience to charity and passing the hat at performances for different causes and organizations. Straight audiences, he notes, are often more appreciative, and in describing his own indoctrination into drag, he shares some of the vocabulary, mentions those icons who influenced him and praises Jay White for his Brooke Collins performances. He names and describes many bars throughout the state, speaks of his evolution as a performer and activist, as well as the need to be aware of how unintended insults or slurs can occur. Making distinctions between religion and faith, the latter very important to him, Patterson also describes his family’s attachment to their local Methodist congregation in Spartanburg and their dedication to liberalizing the Methodist Church in general.
Blanche McCrary Boyd (pronouns: she/her/hers) describes the events that lead to her becoming an acclaimed novelist and professor at Connecticut College. Born in Charleston, SC in 1945 to working class parents, she lost her father at age 15, one of the crucial events of her life. Living with family on a 400-acre plantation near Rantowles, SC, she became “radicalized” by events seen on television, realizing, unlike other members of her family, that she lived in a racist society, finding a “sense of horror” and a “sense of beauty” in the South. She attended Duke University and met Dean Boyd, the man she married, while attending Harvard University summer school. Boyd credits her husband for helping her mature and encouraging her writing once she decided upon that as a goal. Moving to California, Boyd began writing seriously at Pomona College, and won a Wallace Stegner Fellowship in creative writing at Stanford University. Her marriage unraveled, as she discovered feminism, and her attraction to women, bringing her to a “different reality.” She had starting drinking alcohol soon after her father’s death and she spent over a decade abusing it and drugs as she moved to New York and became a “radical lesbian.” She helped set type for the classic novel Rubyfruit Jungle by Rita Mae Brown, and founded Sagaris, an “institute for feminist thought,” associating with leading feminists, including accused bomber Patricia Swinton. She published essays, mostly about the South, in The Village Voice, learned how to “seize” her authority, and published books on popular musicians under the name Vivian Claire. She returned to Charleston, continuing writing and publishing novels, becoming sober in 1981. She discusses how a teenage car wreck involving a Black man’s death became the “fulcrum of my understanding of life” and how it serves as a metaphor for America as she wonders “what white people who are anti-racist are going to do about white supremacy.” She and her wife Leslie are the mothers of twins, James and Julia, and Boyd reflects on parenting, Leslie’s life-threatening illnesses, and how her novel Tomb of the Unknown Racist has capped her fiction writing career. As retirement from Connecticut College looms, she assesses her accomplishments, notes satisfactions, and the many surprising turns her life took.
K. J. Ivery (pronouns: He/Him/His), the first openly trans officer with the Charleston Police Department, discusses growing up, coming into his sexuality and gender identity, schooling, family relations and a variety of other topics. A Charleston native, Ivery grew up in a religious family where sexual non-conformity was not encouraged, and in a city where one faced further discrimination for being both Black and queer. He experienced difficulties with his parents after identifying as bisexual in middle school. Later identifying as gay, Ivery had a girlfriend in high school. He speaks of using the internet to find information and peers while in school, having attended Charles Towne Academy and later the Academic Magnet High School. He found the latter place very accepting, despite not being permitted to start a Gay-Straight Alliance, which he nevertheless did, using a different name to mask it. Identifying as trans-masculine, he discusses how he didn't come out to his family until he was identified in the Post & Courier as an openly transgender police officer. He began to investigate this part of his identity while attending the University of South Carolina, in Columbia, where he again was very active in its Gay-Straight Alliance. Ivery was impressed with Columbia's Harriet Hancock Center, and he discusses the arbitrariness and social constructs of gender, speaks of the "awesome things about... identifying as queer" and expresses delight in not being trapped in the limitations of being a cis-gender male, while also discussing the stud/femme roles prevalent in some lesbian communities. Having majored in criminology, he returned to Charleston in 2012 and immediately began working with the Charleston Police Department, which he lauds for its openness and high standards, and which adapted easily to his transitioning. On the force, he first worked in West Ashley neighborhoods before moving to the tourist districts downtown, while serving as an LGBT liaison to the community, which he describes as cliquish, and stratified along economic, racial and even geographic lines. He has worked with We Are Family, the Alliance for Full Acceptance (helping to administer the Trans Love Fund), Charleston Area Trans Support (CATS), and the Charleston YOUth Count, as well as founding a trans-masculine support and social group. He describes his relationship with his wife, Sam Diamond, the marriage ceremony they created and which their families attended, and how society looks at and presumes it understands the dynamics of their interracial marriage. He contrasts his spirituality compared to his family's rigid religious beliefs, voicing his respect for them and their views and noting the growing acceptance by his parents and siblings. Before concluding he also addresses gentrification in Charleston, specifically in regard to his grandparents' home on Line Street, his attendance at an early Charleston Pride Parade, his social life, and the advancements and progress of the LGBTQ community.
Michael Lott (pronouns: He/Him/His). In the first of two oral history interviews, Michael Lott discusses his early years, his family, coming out, training and practice as a psychiatrist, his personal and professional life in New York City in the era of AIDS, and his health and retirement. Born in Norfolk, VA, he grew up in the Charleston, SC area on James Island, closely connected to his mother and grandfather, but alienated from his father, whom he was told was his stepfather until he was eight. Deeply religious, he would try “to pray the gay away” after various youthful sexual encounters, even as he mentions religious figures who were gay. He began college at Furman and finished at the College of Charleston, experiencing and describing closeted gay life on campus, in bars, like the Garden and Gun Club, and the city. Engaged briefly, he broke that off and was condemned for his sexual orientation by his Campus Crusade for Christ friends. His own near-death and the death of his brother prompted him to begin living an authentic life as he began his studies at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) in 1980. He briefly mentions being on a plane hijacked to Cuba along with a gay CIA agent, and speaks more fully of homophobia at MUSC aimed at him and at an early AIDS patient at Charleston County Hospital. Serving on national medical school boards and committees, he engaged in gay and lesbian related causes, continuing his education in San Francisco (under a doctor who was a part of the Dan White murder trial) and did his residency in New York City, as it experienced the crises of AIDS, crack, and homelessness. Moving there in 1985 as “a farm boy from South Carolina” he eventually ran “with the Saint [disco] crowd”, partied with “beautiful people” on Fire Island and eventually became known as “the Tommy Tune of Death” for helping choreograph the exits of many friends lost to AIDS. He taught at New York University before “selling out” to work for drug companies, eventually going on disability due to his own HIV status. A slow progressor, diagnosed in 1989, he did not go on medications until 2016. Lott moved to Asheville, NC in 2019 and was settling in when the COVID-19 pandemic began. He speaks favorably of the city’s liberal attitudes and ends speaking about the sadness of all his losses but his happiness that younger LGBTQ people have not had to endure experiences similar to his.
Shelli Quenga (pronouns: She/Hers), describes living all over the world, moving to Charleston in her 20s and coming out as a lesbian in her 40s. Her father was in the Air Force, and she discusses her experiences being the daughter of a mixed-race couple with a Guamanian father and a white mother. Educated at Vassar, she married twice. Although she had a gay uncle, “it just never occurred to me that being gay was an option,” she states. Married with one child, she met another woman with four children (two withs special needs) and their relationship began; the coming out process was “tortuous.” During it, she lost a relationship with her daughter, her parents, and her job due to its homophobic work environment. Quenga discusses how her experience differs from that of lesbians who never married men, noting her realization that heterosexuality did give her more power and status. She speaks of her obliviousness to LGBTQ people and issues before coming out and her limited awareness of the Charleston LGBTQ community. That changed once she met Lynn Dugan and began to attend functions organized by the Charleston Social Club, a local lesbian group that Dugan founded. She describes the pressure she feels to keep her personal and business lives separate, including on social media, while also observing how such mundane things as health care forms can be off-putting to LGBTQ people and express subtle discrimination. With the passage of time, she has become more vocal in order to demonstrate to others how misleading or stereotypical their assumptions about her can be, and she has found a shift in those around her, too. She and her wife have been accepted by their extended families, their children now have LGBTQ friends, and Quenga discusses how they keep her up to date with terminology and issues in the community. She mentions the rupture in the congregation of Old St. Andrews Episcopal Church over the ordination of a gay bishop, and ends the interview discussing racism and sexism in South Carolina, and how an inability to be fully free and out causes her to question staying in the state. Her advice for younger people, however, is to leave the state, achieve success not possible here, and then perhaps come back.
Douglas Seymour (pronouns: He/Him/His) relates the story of his abusive childhood, growing up and attending school and college in Charleston, SC, his life as an adult, and his work as a peer navigator for people with HIV, often speaking forcefully on the corrosive impact of homophobia. He was beaten by his father for not liking sports and cars, and, although he adored his mother, she told him “being gay was worse than being a child molester and a child murderer.” He always knew he was attracted to men, and if “there hadn’t been the hitch of being told it was wrong...it would have been a natural flow into adulthood.” He graduated First Baptist High School, and due to his father’s demands, attended the Citadel, terrified that he would be picked on for being gay. There, however, he found acceptance among upperclassmen for his knowledge of pop music and found other gay cadets. Having started frequenting the bar Basin Street South as an underage teen, he began going to the King Street Garden and Gun Club, and Seymour recalls his times there and that era of the late 1970s and early 1980s as one of the happiest periods of his life. After college, he worked as a journalist in Summerville, SC, and he describes the cliquish nature of Charleston gay life at the time. His lack of self-esteem, he says, prompted his alcoholism and his settling into personal relationships that were often abusive. He lived in Washington, DC, from 1982 to 1991 and returned to Charleston with a diagnosis of AIDS, told by physicians to prepare to die. After living with his parents, and coming out to them, he moved into his own apartment and received health care from his physician and Lowcountry AIDS Services. Facing health crises, he quit drinking and quit smoking, hired a personal trainer and was in the best shape of his life in his fifties. He began to work for the local Ryan White program as a peer navigator for people newly diagnosed or those long-term survivors like himself. Seymour describes some of the social support programs he set up and notes the quandary of “a whole bunch of us gay men...[with] no career, no retirement...because we weren’t supposed to be here, and now we’re older, we’re isolated...[and] it kind of feels like nobody wants you.” The interview ends with reflections on the lack of a variety of specific spaces for LGBTQ people and how Charleston has changed over the years.
Alma Lopez and Mario Puga were born in Mexico. In this interview, they focus on their experiences as workers. Puga tells he started working at a young age with his father and asserts children mature quickly in Mexico. As a young man, he joined his brothers in Rhode Island, where he finished high school. When he returned to Mexico, he met Lopez. She worked in housekeeping. Later, both separately immigrated to the United States. Lopez was with her family in Johns Island and Puga joined her. There both worked in agriculture and progressively moved to less physically demanding jobs. Lopez learned English at Our Lady of Mercy and became active in the community. In 2015, she opened a cleaning business. In 2020, the COVID pandemic caused a severe decrease in revenue in her business. Seeking a way to support themselves during these trying times, they decided to dig into their cultural roots and sell food. They knew there was a need: Latino workers did not have a place to buy breakfast in the morning. Lopez and Puga discuss the nuances of the food truck business and assert that it is a very tiring activity. They state the biggest reward in this endeavor is to share their food with their clients and receive their appreciation.
Joseph Goodson was born on January 23, 1930, in McBee, South Carolina, and grew up in nearby Darlington. The only son of a widowed mother, enrolled in The Citadel following a campus visit to a friend who was a member of the Corps of Cadets. After graduation (1951), he joined the US Marine Corps with three classmates and was commissioned as a second lieutenant. He completed the Officers’ Basic Course at Quantico, VA, and was assigned to an anti-aircraft artillery unit, the 2nd 90mm Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battalion at Camp Lejune, NC, in early 1952. Goodson planned to apply for flight training, but on the recommendation of his commanding officer was assigned to command an artillery battery in Korea. He reflects on his experience in Korea during the time just after the Armistice was signed in 1953. He also discusses his Marine career during the 1950s and a tour in Vietnam in 1968 during the Tet Offensive and the defense of Khe Sahn. Goodson also offers observations on life at The Citadel during the period between WWII and the Korean War and contemplates the impact attending The Citadel had on his life and career. Goodson returned to The Citadel in 1972 and spent the next three years as Commanding Officer of the NROTC Unit. He discusses the question of hazing in some cadet organizations during this period. After his retirement from the Marines in 1975, he stayed on in various administrative positions at The Citadel until 1990. He lives in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina.
Houston, Texas native Jessica Maas had no intention of enrolling in a military college after graduating from high school. But a visit to The Citadel in Charleston, South Carolina, solidified her decision to take on the challenges this military school offered, despite several offers to play collegiate-level volleyball at other schools. Maas explains, “I came on campus, and my coaches were talking to me about the challenge and how it would be a different situation from most college students, and that you wouldn't get the normal experience. Once I heard their pitch and heard that it would be a challenge for me, I couldn't turn it down, and I knew that I would regret it if I didn't see if I could handle it, and see if I could excel.” In 2011, four years after first stepping through the Citadel's gates, Maas graduated with a bachelor’s degree in Political Science, proving she had indeed handled every challenge The Citadel had to offer. In her interview, Maas relates her experiences at The Citadel as a female athlete, discussing topics such as gender relationships, friendships, faith, and the leadership styles she encountered. Jessica also recalls her best and worst moments during her four years at college, from academic challenges, to reminiscing about favorite classes.
Susan Breslin was born in Pittsfield, Massachusetts. In the summer of 1963, she joined The Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) in Harlem after graduating from the University of Toronto. In recalling her time with the organization, Breslin talks about the intense work she performed with the TV Image Campaign, a movement devised by CORE to force major companies to use integrated advertisement. She also discusses the significance of the August, 1963 March on Washington, stating, “I think everybody who participated in the March on Washington—and they came from everywhere—walked away knowing they were part of something huge.” Breslin’s interview dives into the rich depths of CORE’s history; specifically the evolution of its ideology. Breslin discusses the controversy that bubbled up when some CORE leaders advocated for separation instead of integration, and the resulting break that led her to leave the group in the fall of 1965. Breslin also shares her memories of major historical events such as the funerals of Malcolm X and Martin Luther King, Jr. She reflects on how her participation in the civil rights movement impacted her personal relationships, discusses the emotional quality of those times, and encourages her audience to find the issue of their time and become involved. Breslin believes, as she says, “Every little step creates controversy, but the controversy does not last. What lasts is the door that has been opened.” Later, Breslin moved to South Carolina, and now resides in Folly Beach, where she continues to be active in local political issues.
Before settling in the Lowcountry in the late 1990s, Pilar resided with her husband and her young son in the city of Mendoza, Argentina. Pilar worked as a teacher and her husband worked for a company called Villavicencio. The young couple was able to meet their obligations and attend to the needs of their child until a reduction of staff left her husband out of work. Like so many other Argentines hit by the economic crisis, after unsuccessfully looking for work for months, disillusioned and desperate, her husband decided to try his luck abroad. A few months later Pilar joined him. In the interview, Pilar tells about the process of preparing to emigrate and the adaptation to the new life in the Lowcountry. She recalls the people and programs that helped her in her journey and reflects on how the experience of migrating affected the family’s roles and dynamics as well as the construction of her own identity.Antes de establecerse en el Lowcountry a fines de los años noventa, Pilar residía junto a su esposo y su hijo pequeño en la ciudad de Mendoza, Argentina. Pilar trabajaba como maestra y su esposo lo hacía en la empresa Villavicencio. La joven pareja era capaz de afrontar sus obligaciones y atender a las necesidades de su niño hasta que una reducción de personal deja a su marido sin trabajo. Como tantos otros argentinos golpeados por la crisis económica, después de buscar trabajo infructuosamente por meses, desilusionado y desesperado, su esposo decidió probar suerte en el exterior. Unos meses después Pilar, se le unió. En la entrevista Pilar cuenta como fue el proceso de prepararse para partir y la adaptación a la vida en el Lowcountry. Recuerda las personas y programas que la ayudaron en este proceso y reflexiona acerca de cómo la experiencia de migrar afectó la dinámica de los roles familiares como así también la construcción de su propia identidad.
Civil rights activist and educator Dr. Luther Seabrook was born in Charleston, South Carolina on December 5, 1928. He spent his childhood in downtown Charleston until his parents enrolled him at Lincoln Academy, a boarding school for black children in North Carolina. After finishing high school, he went to West Virginia for his undergraduate studies, obtained a master’s degree in education at Columbia University, and later earned a doctorate in education administration from the University of Massachusetts. In his interview, Seabrook remembers his experiences with the civil rights movement in the 1960s. He explains that, after facing the pervasiveness of racism and discrimination at Columbia University and from New York City officials, he joined the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE). With CORE, Seabrook worked to bring about change primarily through the housing and education initiatives. In the summer of 1964, he volunteered to go to Mississippi and collaborate with the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), despite the disappearance of three civil rights activists. SNCC leaders sent him to Hattiesburg, where he remained and worked with the Freedom Schools until the end of the summer. Seabrook also recalls his other activities, such as his participation in the Democratic Convention in Atlantic City, attendance of the Selma march, and involvement in a march on Washington. But Seabrook’s impact didn’t stop at civil rights; he also had a successful career in education. In his roles as both a principal and a superintendent, Seabrook was a central figure in the development of the New York and Boston school systems. For his work, he received numerous accolades and awards from various parties. Though Seabrook worked mostly in the North, he returned to South Carolina and worked at the State Department of Education with Dr. Barbara Nielsen in the 1990s.
Janie Campbell was born in Moffett near Edisto Island, South Carolina, and raised in New Jersey. There, she worked in a group home for youth with disabilities and served as Chief Shop Steward for the American Federation of State, County, and Municipal Employees, (AFSCME). In 1991,she reluctantly left her job and returned to South Carolina for family reasons. After holding various jobs in the region, she began working as a sanitation worker with the City of Charleston in 1997. She was one of six women employed by the department at the time and recalls some initial embarrassment at riding on the back of a truck. With the encouragement of male coworkers, however, she became a driver. Campbell took part in two failed efforts to unionize the sanitation workers in order to bolster their pay and improve their working conditions. She discusses the poor working conditions in the department as well as the difficulties of sustaining a union in South Carolina.
Jacquelyn Elaine Venning was born in Charleston, South Carolina, where she spent most of her life. Venning describes being raised in a Christian family and her experience in private schools, including Sacred Heart Catholic School and Bishop England, where she was educated until eleventh grade. Venning graduated from Burke High School in 1983. Venning recalls her first job as a shampoo girl, which she got in sixth grade and continued to work at through her schooling. After high school, Venning relates how she fell in love and got married. Her husband then joined the military, which relocated them around the world. Venning describes her experience living internationally in Germany, and in Texas and Georgia before returning to Charleston in 1992. Since then, she has been working with Aramark at The Citadel, first serving in the Mess Hall and later serving as a supervisor in the Daniel Library Java City. In her interview, Venning recalls her apprehension of working in The Citadel’s male-only environment. But she states that her fears quickly dissipated and describes the cadets as having always been gentle and respectful with her and her job enjoyable. Venning recounts the many institutional changes she has experienced during her than twenty-plus years working at The Citadel, including the deeply controversial admission of Sharon Faulkner to the school and later the full inclusion of women to the Corps. Venning concludes with how the food industry has changed over the years and the attempts to unionize The Citadel food workers.
Bordallo was born in San Pedro Coahuila, Mexico, where she lived with her parents and six brothers until moving to the United States. Her father was a milliner and businessman. In 1978, she got married and crossed the border with her new husband. They arrived in Florida and stayed to work in agriculture, from there traveling to Virginia, the Carolinas, Tennessee, Georgia, and anywhere they were needed. They had three children. In 1986, they decided to settle on Johns Island because they wanted a more stable life and better educational opportunities for their children. They kept working on the fields and lived in a camp located on River Road. There, they met the sisters of Our Lady of Mercy, who visited the families and helped them to access community resources. Aspiring to a better quality of life for her family, Bordallo strove to acquire their own house through Habitats for Humanity. Bordallo and her husband regularized their legal status by accepting the amnesty granted by the Reagan administration and later became US citizens.Bordallo nació en San Pedro Coahuila, México y allí vivió junto a sus padres y seis hermanos hasta que emigró a Estados Unidos. Su padre fabricaba sombreros y se dedicaba a los negocios. En 1978, se casó y con su flamante marido cruzó la frontera. Se instalaron en Florida para trabajar en el campo y desde allí viajaban a Virginia, las Carolinas, Tennessee, Virginia, Georgia, donde quiera que hubiera trabajo en la cosecha. Tuvieron tres hijos. En 1986 pensando en el bien y la educación de los niños decidieron establecerse en Johns Island. Al campo donde vivían, ubicado en River Road, comenzaron a llegar de visita las hermanas de Our Lady of Mercy y ellas los ayudaron a acceder a recursos comunitarios. Aspirando a una mejor calidad de vida para su familia luchó para conseguir su propia vivienda con Habitat for Humanity. Bordallo y su esposo se acogieron a la amnistía otorgada por el gobierno del presidente Reagan y más tarde se convirtieron en ciudadanos americanos.
In the second part of her interview, Bordallo recalls how her life changed after her family settled on Johns Island and explains how the island's Latino community has grown in recent years. Bordallo explains that their family has always valued education very highly, and, for that reason, she and her husband did not hesitate to invest their efforts in sending their children to private Catholic schools, first to Nativity and later to Bishop England. Bordallo is also proud of having paid for her children’s college education costs, and is happy to say they are now independent adults, giving her the opportunity to pursue her own projects, study, and travel. Bordallo works as a young children's teacher at Rural Mission, is a student at Trident Technical College, and remains an active member of Holy Spirit Parish on Johns Island. En esta segunda parte de la entrevista, Bordallo recuerda como cambió su vida después que su familia se estableció en Johns Island y describe cómo la comunidad latina de la isla ha crecido en los últimos años. Bordallo explica que la educación siempre ha sido un valor muy importante para su familia y que, por esa razón, ella y su esposo no dudaron en invertir sus esfuerzos para que sus hijos fueran a escuelas privadas católicas, primero a Nativity y más tarde a Bishop England. Bordallo se enorgullece también de haber pagado por los estudios universitarios de sus hijos y tener la capacidad, ahora que ellos son adultos independientes, de abocarse a sus propios proyectos, estudiar y viajar. Bordallo trabaja como maestra de niños pequeños en Rural Mission, estudia en Trident Tech y es miembro activo de la parroquia Holy Spirit en Johns Island.
Carl Roberts was born in Spartanburg, South Carolina in 1929. His father and mother worked in a cotton mill. He was one of seven boys and had one sister. Roberts enlisted in the Navy when he was 17-years old and attended basic training in Maryland. He was assigned to the USS Leyte aircraft carrier as a Seaman First Class in the Pacific at the end of the Second World War. He later joined the Army and was stationed in Seoul during the Korean War where he worked in the motor pool, acquiring mechanical skills and learning to drive various vehicles. He received the Victory Medal for service in World War II, the Good Conduct Medal for service in the Korean War, and the Honorable Service button. After leaving the service, he was a sheet metal worker at Beverage Air in Spartanburg. In the 1960’s, Roberts moved to Charleston to work as an automatic transmission mechanic and to begin a family. He married and had three children.
Charles W. Smith discusses growing up, his adult professional life as a city planner and realtor, his personal life and his work as an activist for LGBTQ rights. His family lived in Orangeburg, Beaufort, Florence and Charleston and he was educated at the College of Charleston and Clemson University, moving to Miami in 1984. His early family life was overshadowed by the illness and death of an older brother. Realizing he was gay, he avoided being bullied in school by staying closeted. In 1987 in Miami Beach, FL, he met Carlos Guillermo Rodriguez. Soon after, Smith told his family he was gay and Rodriguez tested HIV positive. He wanted Smith to leave him, but Smith refused; their families in South Carolina and Colombia, South America accepted them. Trinity Episcopal Cathedral in Miami, with which Smith was affiliated as a senior warden, was also accepting and affirming. After his lover’s death in 1995, Smith, who had run for political office, but lost, moved to Charleston, SC in 1996, finding a changed city, which he attributes to Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr. We Are Family, a youth-oriented LGBTQ organization had been founded by Thomas Myers and Smith stayed, founding a real estate firm catering to LGBTQ clients. There were a number of bars in town he remembers frequenting; he affiliated with St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church, a historically African American congregation opened up to white congregants, many of whom were LGBTQ. Smith and others, mostly non natives, such as Linda Ketner, Jim and Warren Redman-Gress, Carolyn Kirk, Lynne Moldenhauer and Linda G. William, helped found Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA). They publicly confronted a newspaper ad attacking LGBTQ people. This, Smith believes, began the process of removing shame and empowering the LGBTQ community. Smith also describes the “thousand year rainfall event” of 2015 and his marriage to Rob Suli that year, in a Columbia, SC hospital to ensure their rights were respected in the arena of health care. He notes the importance of the internet to LGBTQ people in finding community. He mentions Lowcountry Gay and Lesbian Alliance (LGLA), the lives of Jay Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson in Miami, and two gay men, who wintered in Charleston, SC. They, according to Smith, participated in the gay purges of US State Department employees in the 1940s and ‘50s. He also mentions the ownership of gay bars in Charleston, SC and the conflict over LGBTQ rights that has split the local Episcopal Diocese.
Taylor DeBartola tells the story of his upbringing in Peachtree City, Georgia, a town he describes as “very conservative.” He discusses the competitive relationship he had with his younger brother who is close in age, as well as the role that religion played in their early life. DeBartola reflects on the way that he revealed his sexuality to his family, and the period of time where things between them were rocky, discussing the ways in which he had to be patient and allow his parents to “take their time” to accept him. Taylor then talks about his “chosen family,” and the way they all met at Dudley’s, a popular gay bar in downtown Charleston. He details the ways he sees gatherings with gay men changing in recent years, moving from public spaces to more private locations such as personal residences. Taylor also discusses gay married life in the South, later noting that he and his now-husband were “engaged when it was not going to be legal,” and stressing that young people should educate themselves on gay history, especially the HIV/AIDS crisis, which he stresses is far from over. He also talks about the ways that particular books shaped him and his desire to learn more about gay history, mentioning Harlan Greene’s Why We Never Danced the Charleston. DeBartola then describes the impact that artist and activist David Wojnarowicz has had on his life, and the ways that he has tried to trace Wojnarowicz’s and his partner’s time spent on a trip to Charleston. Finally, Taylor talks about his experiences being an openly gay College of Charleston student.
At a “Unity in the Community” Forum sponsored by the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Reverend Robert Arrington answers questions posed to him by female impersonator/performer Symone N. O’Bishop and members of the audience. After introductions by emcee Regina Duggins (aka Gina Mocha), Arrington speaks of his personal life, conditions in the lowcountry, and the development and evolution of his open and affirming Charleston Unity Fellowship Church. He describes growing up in Durham, NC, and living in Rochester, NY, before moving to Charleston, a place he finds not as progressive or easy to live as elsewhere. He mentions a dysfunctional childhood, being misdiagnosed with learning disabilities, and recalls various phases of his life, including being married to woman, being a female impersonator, being HIV positive for thirty years, and the love he now shares with his husband, stating that they were the first “out” African American gay male couple in the area to have a house built for them by Habitat for Humanity. Most of the interview, however, focuses on the growth of his church, his plans for it, and the need to be completely transparent in all aspects of one’s life, including one’s spiritual life. He and O’Bishop discuss the behavior of some closeted LGBTQ church goers, who hide their sexual and emotional lives to worship under ministers who preach against homosexuality. The only “out” African American minister in the area, Arrington describes his church as Pentecostal-related and its policy of accepting every one of every sexual orientation, identification and race. He responds to an HIV-positive transgender woman of color asking how to find a loving relationship; he and the interviewer also discuss sexually irresponsible behavior and strategies for finding a life partner. Prompted by other queries from the audience, Reverend Arrington agrees that there is a need for more coordination with his church and the community it represents with other agencies in the area. An audience member comments further that there must be a new attitude regarding such participation: instead of asking to be included, one must demand that inclusion. The interview ends with Chase Glenn of AFFA and others describing programs and initiatives of related interest in the area. A call for action results with applause at the comment that this forum may mark a new direction for one of Charleston’s marginalized communities.
Andrew Becknell, sometimes known as Andrezia (pronouns: they/them, but also she/her) describes growing up in the Charleston area as a bigender or two-spirit person. They grew up in a conservative Catholic family, moving from West of the Ashley to Mount Pleasant. Becknell's parents divorced when they were young, and they became close to their mother, and has only recently begun to renew ties with their father. Becknell has Tourette's syndrome, misdiagnosed early on as Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), leading to bad reactions to drugs and an unhappy year at Blessed Sacrament School. Later attending Wando High School, Becknell, who always sensed they were different, began experimenting with high heels and other forms of feminine attire, eliciting a range of both negative and positive reaction, the former from his family and the latter from a church youth group leader. Attending Trident Technical College, Becknell served as Vice President of Gay/Straight Alliance, which they helped found and later had both positive and negative experiences in a different work environments. Now working as a car-detailer, a job much enjoyed, Becknell discusses being out, "blending in," and also moving into "survival mode." Becknell mentions attending some Charleston Area Transgender Support (CATS) meetings, notes being more attracted to women, describes the impact of certain albums and musicians on them, declares that "The binary must die," and speaks of their attraction to Norse Polytheism. They also muse on the rigidity of the older generation, both straight and gay, in viewing of sex and gender roles, mentioning a lesbian "takeover" of the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), making the organization more accepting. Becknell also discusses work with a number of therapists, and how a gender therapist has been most helpful.
Robert Arrington (pronouns: He/Him/His), Black reverend of the Unity Fellowship Church, the only affirming church for LGBTQ people of color in the Charleston, SC area, discusses his personal life, his spiritual growth, and troubles and issues with his church and the larger Charleston, SC community. A native of Harlem, NY, Arrington grew up in an abusive household and due to a misdiagnosis, was sent to schools for the mentally handicapped. "My childhood was just about survival," he notes. Being different, he was the subject of contempt by others and sought solace in religion and the church, where he was told he was gifted. After being sent to a rigorous all male Catholic School, and his father's murder in 1974, Arrington and his family moved to a rural area near Durham, NC, where he graduated high school. In college, he married a woman "to make everybody happy," but that did not work out, and, moving to Fayetteville, NC, he became involved in a party scene, contracted HIV and nearly died. Back in Durham, facing family issues, Arrington rejoined the church, started an AIDS ministry, and could not be ordained as a minister in the Missionary Baptist Church as a gay man but only as "a non-practicing homosexual." To preserve his integrity, he joined the Unity Fellowship Church movement, and had a congregation in Charlotte, NC. Arrington then gives a brief history of the denomination, noting how he moved to Rochester, NY before coming to Charleston in 2010 and setting up a Pentecostal type church service here. Arrington describes the growth and decline of his congregation, mentions an ex-husband, and speaks of the prejudice he has felt in Charleston directed against him as an African American, and specifically against him as a reverend in and out LGBTQ church. While loving the area, he comments on the resistance of "gatekeepers" to change, feeling that racism is "in the air." He comments favorably on many working to improve the LGBTQ and African American communities, but concludes that many with power and privilege are halting progress.
Lee Anne Leland (pronouns: She/Hers) now living in McClellanville, SC, tells her story of coming to terms with and exploring her identity as a self-identified gender-nonconforming, lesbian, transgender woman. Being raised as a boy in a family of five siblings, she grew up in a prominent, socially and religiously conservative Mount Pleasant family where she struggled to understand and come to terms with her identity facing the disapproval of many. She describes a continuing and confusing search for self-expression and the impact such words as “cross-dresser” and “transsexual” had on her and her search for community, until, with the help of friends, she found her transgender identity. She recounts how she dealt with coming out, her experience with depression, thoughts of suicide, dysphoria over her appearance, various work experiences, and self-acceptance as an adult. Through all of this, Leland discusses the love and support she has received from her wife, Cindy, and the role she has had as an activist. Leland continues as coordinator of the Charleston Area Transgender Support (CATS), a board member of We Are Family, and a speaker at public events such as Transgender Day of Remembrance. She discusses how she perceives that claiming and living her authentic existence, even walking down the street, can be an act of political activism. Leland stresses the need for conversations and political activism especially in the political climate of 2018. Additionally, Leland recounts experiences and histories of Charleston’s gay bars, specifically the Lion’s Head, and the King Street Garden and Gun Club. She also mentions White Point Garden as a cruising spot, the Spoleto Festival, and the impact that the transsexual Dawn Langley Hall Simmons had on the Charleston community.
Louis Decimus Rubin, Jr., was born in 1923 in Charleston, South Carolina, the eldest of three children of Jeanette Weinstein and Louis D. Rubin, Sr. Jeanette grew up in Richmond, Virginia, and met Louis Sr. while visiting her sister in Charleston. In this interview, Louis talks about his father and his father's brothers. Uncle Harry worked with Marion Hornik at M. Hornik & Company in Charleston. Uncle Dan took a job at a Birmingham, Alabama, newspaper, and later became a Broadway playwright. He also wrote Hollywood screenplays for Paramount Studios in the 1930s. Uncle Manning, who wrote advertising for M. Marks & Sons Department Store in Charleston, worked for decades, beginning in 1914, for Charleston's Evening Post as a reporter and editor. Louis Sr. was a self-taught electrician and opened Louis Rubin Electrical Company at 333 King Street. Jeanette and Louis Sr. moved the family to Richmond in 1942 to be near her brothers; Louis Sr. had been sickly and Jeanette was struggling to take care of her family. In Richmond, Louis Sr. earned local fame for his weather predictions based on the clouds and became known as the Weather Wizard of Wythe Avenue. Louis Jr. oversaw the revision of his father's book, The Weather Wizard's Cloud Book, published in 1989 by Algonquin Books, which the younger Rubin had founded in 1983. The Rubins were members of Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim, Charleston's Reform congregation, which, the interviewee recalls, was very small when he was growing up. Boys at the temple were confirmed, but did not have bar mitzvahs. Louis Jr. had only one Jewish friend as a boy; the rest were not Jewish. "Growing up as I did, being a Jew wasn't very important. I didn't define myself as being a Jew." As an adult, Louis thinks of himself primarily as a southerner and considers himself Jewish culturally but not religiously. He compares himself to his brother, Manning, who has embraced his Jewish identity and religion. Louis mentions Charleston natives Sidney Rittenberg, Sr.; Octavus Roy Cohen, Jr., Earl Mazo, and the Mazo families. He describes the differences between what locals at one time referred to as Uptown Jews and Downtown Jews. "We were raised to be snobs." His mother was among those with the attitude that "Orthodox Jews were somehow peasants." He considers the impact of the Holocaust on American Jews, in particular, its role in breaking down the barriers between Charleston's Uptown Jews and Downtown Jews. He adds that economic and social parity played just as much a role in eliminating bias. Louis discusses the assimilation of Jews in America: where once many may have abandoned religious practices that set them apart, he now sees a return to traditional customs. Louis married Eva Redfield, an Episcopalian, in 1951, and they raised two sons, Robert and William, in a secular home. The interviewer references a few of Rubin's many published works, tracing the parallels between his fiction and real life.
Sandra Lee Kahn Rosenblum was born in 1935 in Charleston, South Carolina, the eldest of two children of Julius and Edna Goldberg Kahn, both of whom immigrated to the United States from Lithuania. She talks briefly about her parents' families and how Julius, who lived in Charleston, was introduced to Edna, a Baltimore, Maryland, resident. They married in 1934, and Edna moved to Charleston, where Julius, with his brother Robbie Kahn, was in the wholesale grocery business on East Bay Street. Sometime later, the siblings parted ways, each setting up his own shop on King street. Sandra remembers living in the Frewil Apartments on the corner of Smith and Vanderhorst streets, as a young child, followed by a move to Rutledge Avenue, near Bogard Street, a location she describes as "idyllic." When she was fifteen, the Kahns moved to a house at 45 Spring Street, where her father built a small store on the same lot. She says, the neighborhood was like a "slum," but they could no longer afford the rent for the apartment on Rutledge. "Ultimately, he (Julius) went belly up. . . . He was not a businessman." The Kahns were members of the Orthodox synagogue Beth Israel, but Sandra's mother sent her to Hebrew school at Brith Sholom, the older of the two Orthodox shuls in the city. Sandra was confirmed at Brith Sholom. She discusses with the interviewers Brith Sholom adopting the practice of confirmation for girls. Interviewer Dale Rosengarten notes that she was told by a Beaufort resident that their synagogue began offering confirmation to satisfy mothers who wanted a rite of passage for their daughters. Sandra states that, as a child, being Jewish was a significant part of her identity and the Jewish youth groups Young Judaea and Aleph Zadik Aleph (AZA) were central to her life (she was an AZA Sweetheart). She responds to questions about Brith Sholom's junior congregation; recalls Seymour Barkowitz, her homeroom teacher in high school; and reports that she never experienced any overt antisemitism as a child. Interviewee provided comments and corrections to the transcript during proofing. See the follow-up (Mss. 1035-583) to this interview also conducted on September 28, 2021. For related oral histories, see interviews with Sandra's cousins Ellis Kahn in 1997 (Mss. 1035-142) and Jack Kahn in 1998 (Mss. 1035-182); and Sandra's husband, Raymond Rosenblum, and his siblings in 2008 (Mss. 1035-134).
![Interview with Thomas Pinckney Rutledge Rivers [Tommy Rivers]](https://rspace.library.cofc.edu/filestore/9/9/7/0/2/2_95b79094de0524c/220799_alt_32898_44746902137e16d.jpg)
