Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. William “Bill” H. Carson (pronouns: He/Him) discusses the challenges growing up as an African American gay male in Columbia, SC, his Harvard and medical school education, professional life as an out psychiatrist, and his subsequent international work in corporate pharmacology, while also addressing his patronage of the arts. His school teacher parents did their best to shield him from the worst aspects of segregation, with little disparagement of LGBTQ people, but with few role models available. Education was of prime importance in his environment. Turning down Senator Strom Thurmond’s appointment to the US Naval Academy, Carson went to Harvard instead, participating in the Harvard Glee Club and gay life on campus while avoiding Boston, then experiencing racial tensions. Outed just as he began to attend Case Western Reserve Medical School, he embraced the opportunities of self-growth and educating others. His status (coming out professionally before doing so with his family) continued in 1988 as he became a psychiatry resident at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. He mentions the local LGBTQ scene, describes board work on Lowcountry AIDS Services, and the current lack of knowledge among younger gay people of the battles of that era. Beginning a long-term relationship in Charleston, Carson left in 1998 to work for Bristol Myers Squibb, in charge of life cycle management programs of the drug Abilify. That led to his 2002 employment with the Japanese company Otsuka working with the psychopharmacological drug aripiprazole. Carson talks of the learning curve regarding Japanese culture and his subsequent work with international drug conglomerates, noting his excitement in learning new skills and points of view, necessary on national and international boards. Carson is also Board Chair Emeritus of the Sphinx Organization, helping in its mission to promote the careers of Black and Hispanics in the field of classical music. He speaks of the production of Omar by Michael Abels and Rhiannon Giddens, whose world premiere at the Spoleto Festival USA in brought him back to Charleston; he also discusses being a co-producer of Pulitzer Prize winner Michael R. Jackson’s A Strange Loop on Broadway. He sums up the possibilities of gene therapy in possibly helping cure diseases such as AIDS, and despite retiring in 2020, he still stays connected with various boards and projects.
Warshaw was born on October 27, 1920. From an early age, he wanted to go to college at The Citadel. When his high school record seemed likely to derail his hope, direct appeal to Gen. Summerall got him in. After overcoming some early problems, Warshaw settled down and graduated in 1942. He received orders on graduation day to report on June 10, 1942, for active duty and soon was assigned to the 433rd automatic weapons battalion, an anti-aircraft unit. Shipped to Casablanca, on the Moroccan Atlantic coast, his unit was assigned a training and support mission until the July-August 1943 invasion of Sicily. After the conquest of Sicily, his unit joined the Allied invasion of Italy and advanced to the Cassino front where the attack stalled. Withdrawn from the Cassino front and sent to the Anzio beachhead, he was able to visit Rome after the breakout for one evening. Withdrawn once again, Warshaw’s unit left Italy to join the invasion of southern France, fighting from there into Germany. Warshaw was promoted to first lieutenant and to captain as the war progressed, but when asked he said that he had absolutely no interest in staying in the Army. The morning after the capture of the Dachau concentration camp, Warshaw’s colonel took him to see the camp. There they found the odor was such that “we could hardly stand it . . . piles and piles of bodies.” He opened one of camp’s four ovens where “Bones were still smoldering,” and the colonel handed him a camera and told him to take pictures, some of which are archived at the Jewish Heritage Collection at the College of Charleston. A retired merchant of men’s clothing, he resides in his home town of Walterboro, SC.
Clarence A. Renneker Jr. grew up in Orangeburg, SC, and enrolled at The Citadel in 1939. His brother-in-law, a graduate from the school, influenced his decision. He majored in business and graduated from The Citadel in May of 1943. Renneker was sent to Ft. Benning, GA, where he completed OCS and was commissioned. He was then assigned for a time to the 80th Infantry division. After training in the southwest, he was shipped overseas in June 1944 as an “excess officer.” After arriving in England, he was assigned to the 118th Infantry after speaking with the regiment’s executive officer by chance in a barbershop. The Regimental executive officer was Citadel graduate Colonel Caldwell Barron, Jr. As an officer in the 118th division, Renneker helped run training schools around England, and later in France, he helped train replacement troops from other branches as riflemen by teaching them map reading skills, to shoot and care for their rifles, and other basic infantry skills before they were sent to the front lines. After the surrender was signed in Germany, Renneker helped coordinate the post-war return of soldiers to the United States. In June 1946, he returned home to his wife and eventually took over his father’s clothing store in Orangeburg. He is retired and living in Mt. Pleasant with his wife.
Ida Ostendorff was born in Gilbert, South Carolina. At the start of WWII she traveled to Washington D.C. where she passed a typing course and began work as a “government girl” working in the Judge Advocate General’s office. In 1942, upon turning 21 and meeting the minimum age requirement, she jointed the Women’s Army Auxiliary Corps (WAAC). She completed her basic training at Ft. Oglethorpe, Georgia, where she was trained to use a gas mask. She volunteered for an assignment overseas and traveled to New York City to embark on the Queen Elizabeth. She landed in Scotland on June 6, 1944, having no idea at the time that it was D-Day. She was then transported to her assignment at Stone Staffordshire, England. On her way there she remembers the commotion caused by the Normandy landings: “As we were going along, people were just waving wildly to us because they knew it was D-Day, but we didn’t know it.” She remained in England until the end of the war. She met her husband after the war when they both took the same French class. They were married for 61 years and have five children, several of whom have served in the military.
Civil rights leader and community activist William Saunders was born in 1935 and has resided most of his life in Johns Island, South Carolina. In this interview, Saunders reflects on the economic and cultural changes he has witnessed over the years. Many of the changes had a negative impact on the health and life expectancy of the African American community. Regarding land ownership and access to natural resources, he states- both poor white and black landowners lost their properties because of shark loan practices. He criticizes government policies that facilitated city annexations, profuse housing development, and promoted tourism industry without considering their impact in the life of folks residing in rural and urban areas of Charleston. He thinks organic farming is a positive practice but one that does not benefit poor families. Saunders states he keeps working on his community as a member of the Gullah/ Geechee Commission. He also co-chairs with Tommy Legare the organization Concerned Citizens of the Sea Island, which is against the extension of I-526. Saunders states that activism can carry a heavy toll. "If you got the knowledge, and you care, then you have to suffer. You really have to suffer because you’re the one that gets involved."
George Hopkins was born in Chicago, Illinois in 1947. He is a College of Charleston professor emeritus. This interview focuses on George Hopkins' long commitment to social justice and labor rights in Charleston. Initially, Hopkins' activism was mostly related to the College of Charleston and focused on racial issues and academic freedom. By the end of the seventies, he got involved with Carolina Alliance for Fair Employment (CAFE). Since then, he has been a member and has served as president of the organization. He remembers significant labor-related events such as the closing of the Navy Base in the nineties and the longshoremen protest in January 2000 that ended with the five men known as "The Charleston Five" arrested and charged with felonies. He also reflects on the crucial role the ILA 1422 and CAFE - now Charleston Alliance for Fair Employment - have played for Charleston's intersectional organizing and coalition development. Finally, Hopkins talks about his participation in other social justice endeavors in Charleston, such as the Quality Education Project and the Charleston Area Justice Ministry.
Michael Roberts was one of the first participants of Occupy Charleston in the year 2011. At that time, Roberts had lost his job in the recession and was living with his wife, Kathleen Ellen Roberts, on a sailboat. In the interview, he remembers how Occupy Charleston came to life: a Facebook page, a meeting at Kudu, a coffee shop in downtown Charleston where six people discussed actions, and the first big gathering at the Gage Hall. He describes the occupation at Brittlebank Park and at Marion Square that ended when the Charleston police arrested several activists. After the arrests, he explains, the meetings moved to the ILA Hall and then each group that had converged at Occupy refocused on their own projects. Roberts reflects on Occupy Charleston lessons and contributions to change. In the second part of the interview, Robert’s wife joins the conversation, providing her own insights. At the end, Roberts discusses his military experiences, his current job, and online activism.
John Gardner was born in Hilton Head, SC, and raised in a tight-knit Black community in Beaufort, SC. In this second interview, Gardner recalls memories of the Penn Center, his father’s store, and describes his mother's community involvement. He also brings up his time at Morehouse University, including his memories of the jazz club Paschal's. After graduation in 1970, Gardner relocated to Rochester, NY. At the time of the interview, Gardner was a historical interpreter at McLeod Plantation and Historic Site on James Island in Charleston, South Carolina.
Circular Congregation Church senior pastor Jeremy Rutledge was born in Honolulu, HI, in 1971. When he was five years old, his family moved back to Houston, TX. Rutledge attended Bailey University and then Baptist Theological Seminary in Richmond, VI. After graduation, he returned to Houston and worked in chaplaincy for three years and the following ten as the pastor of a progressive church. In 2012, Rutledge moved with his wife and son to Charleston and became the Circular Church pastor. He recalls that by then, Charleston Area Justice Ministry was taking shape, and the country was shocked by the killing of Trayvon Martin. Rutledge talks about CAJM's organizing model, how white and black congregations came together to build power, and the learning curve necessary for local white progressives to demand accountability to public officials. He remembers the criticism that arose when CAJM demanded action from the Charleston School District Superintendent Nancy McGinley and later when asked for a Charleston Police Department and North Charleston Police Department racial bias audit. Finally, he reflects on the meaningful relationships that have been forge over the years among individuals and congregations thanks to the social justice work.
Corey Clayton is a College of Charleston graduate, University of Alabama Birmingham graduate, and a member of Omega PSI Phi Fraternity, Inc., who at the time of the interview worked for Brownstone Construction Group building the International African American Museum in Charleston, South Carolina. His interest in engineering goes back to the summers working for his grandfather and his father, both of whom were general contractors. Additionally, he always had an interest in history. When he learned that the International African American Museum was going to be built, he knew he had to be a part of that process and decided to work for Brownstone Construction Group, a Black owned company, as a Quality Control Manager. In the interview, Clayton remembers the college professors that guided him and provided readings that allowed him to understand better his history. Finally, he reflects on the museum's relevance to the region and the deep personal significance of playing a part in its coming to fruition.
John Burrows was born in Saginaw, Michigan. An excellent student and athlete he graduated high school and received a full scholarship to go The Citadel. He entered in September of 1936 as a civil engineer major, and quickly became number one in his class academically. He also excelled in football, basketball and track, making all-state for basketball three years in a row, and remains in the Citadel Athletic Hall of Fame. Upon graduation from The Citadel in 1940 he received a regular army commission and joined the 61st Coast Artillery Regiment. From there he was eventually assigned to the air defense division of the Supreme Headquarters under General Eisenhower in London, and oversaw the then top-secret plan codenamed Operation Overlord. Burrows recalls his decision to enter The Citadel and his active duty in WWII. Although never in direct combat, his time on the Supreme Headquarters staff allowed him an insider's perspective on the planning for Operation Overlord and the European Theater. He discusses the US Army's ingenuity when it came to advances in weaponry, which were occurring in front of his eyes. He also discusses in detail the German surrender at Reims and how the US Army so effectively handled the multitude of issues surrounding the details of such an event. Upon returning from his service in the army, Burrows worked for a book publishing company before returning to Charleston take a job as Assistant Commandant at The Citadel. Audio with transcript.
Philip S. Minges, Jr. was born on December 1, 1923, in Charleston, SC. He reported for active duty in 1942 during his sophomore year at Clemson University. Although he began training in the Corps of Engineers, combat replacement requirements led to Minges’ assignment as an infantryman to the Eleventh Armored Division. Minges reflects on his combat experience during the Battle of the Bulge when he had to try to dig a foxhole under fire in frozen ground. In his first battle, only three men of a 12-man squad, Minges and two others, came through unharmed. All others were wounded or killed. A few battles later, Minges was wounded: “I heard something hit on the side of the track, about waist high. I knew what it was. [If the shot] had been over about a foot [it would have gotten] me in the back…. I heard another pop and dirt flew up around my feet…. I got shot in the foot.” Following World War II, he enrolled at The Citadel in 1946 and graduated in 1948. After the war, Minges worked fifty years for Dupont in Camden, SC, and retired as an Army Reserve colonel with thirty years of service.
William McCann speaks about his experience growing up as part of an Irish American and Italian American family in New York. While his great-great grandparents came to the United States from Longford and Wicklow in the 1850?s and took up blue-collar jobs, the family has little knowledge of family stories or memories from that time, as William?s paternal grandfather passed away when his father was in his teens. Because he had more contact with older relatives from his maternal, Italian, side during childhood, the majority of William?s experience of Irishness has been through relationships with his friends in New York, some who have parents that are native Irish. He feels that Irish identity is less prominent in the South, that there is less of a culture built around Irishness.
Lidia Gabriela Ojeda Ruiz (b. 1997) was born in the town of Jerécuaro in Guanajuato, Mexico and came to the United States in 2006, with her two older brothers to live with her mother and her older sister who were already settled in Johns Island, South Carolina. In this interview, Ojeda remembers growing up in Mexico, the difficulty and confusion of leaving family and friends in Guanajuato to start a new life in the United States, and the challenges she faced adjusting to a foreign environment. She shares her story of adjusting to the school system, learning English and becoming acculturated. Moreover, she discusses her status as a Dreamer and the burdens placed upon DACA students to further their education beyond high school. Ojeda tells about her interest in criminal justice, her work with a local immigration lawyer, and her plans to continue her education in the future. In this interview, Ojeda reflects about how growing up in two different places, Guanajuato and South Carolina, have shaped her life and character.
Michelle Mapp was born on September 4, 1969 in Bad Kreuznach, Germany where her father, a U.S. Army drill sergeant was stationed. The family moved back to the United States when she was four years old and to the Charleston area when she was thirteen. Mapp attended Brentwood Middle School and Garret High School in North Charleston. She earned a bachelor's degree in Engineering from Clemson University and a Master of Engineering Management at George Washington University. She lived with her husband in Atlanta for several years and then relocated to Charleston in 2000. While teaching math at Stall High in North Charleston she observed the complexity of community factors that affected her students and became more interested in working on public policies. Following this interest, she enrolled in the master's degree program in public administration at the College of Charleston and started working right away with a newly formed organization, the Charleston Housing Trust. In the interview, Mapp discusses in length the need for affordable housing in Charleston and North Charleston and states that regional conversations and plans are needed and still lacking. She explains that affordable housing requires both finding resources but also modifying government building and development regulations. At the end of the interview, Mapp reflects about the Mother Emanuel AME Chuch massacre, the killing of Walter Scott, and systemic racism in Charleston and South Carolina.
Vivian Cleary, 64, was born in Dublin, Ireland. He shares stories about life in the Northside of Dublin. Vivian lived in Dublin until he was three years old when his parents moved to Birmingham, England, where he lived until the age of 17. Vivian shares experiences of family holidays in Ireland. Vivian came to Charleston twenty years ago and discusses how different life is in America. He discusses political issues with America during this time along with the process for applying for permanent residency. Vivian is also able to shed light on historical events in Ireland, such as experiences with the IRA, and separation of Northern Ireland and the Republic.
Charles (Chuck) A. Maxwell, Citadel Class of 1985, was born in Denver, Colorado in 1962 and was raised in the South Carolina Lowcountry. His family has deep roots in Charleston and his parents decided to return to the city when his father left the Air Force. After graduating from Berkeley High School in Moncks Corner, he attended The Citadel and was an accomplished cadet elected to be the Fourth Battalion Regimental Commander. Right after graduation, he joined the Air Force and was initially stationed in North Dakota and later in England. He was named Captain, but his career was cut short when he was subjected to martial court for being gay. In the interview, Maxwell takes pride in his family roots and values that have guided him during his life. He talks about the special relationship he had with an uncle who was a gay artist living in New York City and helped him to accept himself and enjoy life in the big city. He discusses his experiences as a Black gay man in the South and in military organizations before the time of the Don't Ask, Don't Tell policies. He is proud about his experience at The Citadel and his accomplishments as a cadet. He explains it was easier for him to be gay at The Citadel than Black at The Citadel because he could hide his sexual orientation but not his complexion. He remembers Hell Week, the knob year, and other abuses he overcame during his time in the institution, including being forced to lead the school fight song, Dixieland. He also talks about his experience and accomplishments in the Air Force, the struggles to be who he was in a homophobic institution, as well as the frustration and despair he went through for being taken to court martial. At the time of the interview Maxwell was living in Atlanta with his partner of thirteen years and was still deeply involved with The Citadel as an alum.
Chef and entrepreneur Sameka Merisier Jenkins (b. 1972) grew up in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina in the Seven Mile community. Her early memories relate to the delicious food that was shared by the family on Sundays after worshiping at the Great Will AME Church. She describes her family's cooking practices and the dishes that were prepared. Additionally, she talks about her childhood community, traditional medicine, and the accents and sayings of the elders. Jenkins developed her interest in cooking when she was a teenager and learned her craft by staying in the kitchen with the adults, following directions, and imitating them. She attended Francis Marion University and was soon cooking for her friends. Mixing with people from various places, she became aware of her rich heritage and developed a keen sense of pride in it. Since 2011, Jenkins has owned and operates Carolima’s a catering company that specializes in Gullah Cuisine. Jenkins reflects on the Gullah/ Geechee restaurants in the Lowcountry and her relationship with other business owners.
Richard Polite was born in Charleston in 1951 and raised on Strawberry Lane before his family moved to Cannon St. near President St. After attending Burke High School, where he played football, Polite served in the U.S. Army and served one tour in Vietnam. In this interview, Polite recalls growing up in segregated Charleston and later working at the Naval Shipyard. He explains why he enjoys the job he has now held for 12 years driving a truck for the City of Charleston’s environmental services department. The job affords him the opportunity to serve and interact with the public. Hazardous working conditions and mismanagement have nevertheless led Polite and many of his coworkers to establish a union this past year. While there is no shortage of dissatisfaction among his coworkers, fear of losing their jobs in a poor economy has kept many of them on the sidelines.
Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. James Moskow (pronouns: He/Him/His) discusses growing up in Charleston, SC, his birth family, and his time in the foster care system. He talks about moving around as a small child before moving to Charleston, SC at five or six years old, and discusses his time in the foster care system from the age of eight to fourteen. During his time in foster care he lived with relatives, in group homes, and ultimately was adopted by a single gay father. James talks about his biological family, their religious beliefs as Pentecostals and being adopted by a Jewish father. He discusses LGBTQ life in Charleston, attending a Pride festival in Summerville, SC and his friendship with Charleston drag queen Melody Lucas. He discusses his time at West Ashley High School and meeting a clique of friends in high school that he remains close to. Moskow recalls moving to Alaska and living on the Kenai Peninsula before the COVID-19 pandemic forced him to move back to Charleston.
