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2. Jewish Heritage Collection: Oral history interview with Allan Jay Sindler and Sophie Payeff Sindler
- Date:
- 34842
- Description:
- Sophie “Skip” Payeff Sindler, born in Aiken, South Carolina, in 1930, and her husband, Allan Sindler, born in Bishopville, South Carolina, in 1925, discuss their family histories. Skip’s parents met in Chicago after emigrating from Knyszyn, Poland. Skip recalls encounters with antisemitism while growing up in Aiken. She describes her brother Kivy Payeff’s service in the military in Germany during World War II, and the traditional nature of services at the Aiken synagogue, Adath Yeshurun. Allan’s father, Frank Sindler, a tailor, emigrated from the Lithuania-Latvia region and married Pauline Schwartzman, a native of Baltimore. They followed Pauline’s aunt and uncle, Louis and Mary Schwartzman Slesinger, to Bishopville, South Carolina, where, for decades, Frank ran a men’s clothing store. Allan describes growing up in Bishopville, his Jewish education, and the Bishopville Hebrew Congregation. Allan and Skip raised their family in Camden, South Carolina, about 25 miles from Allan’s hometown. Allan, a chemical engineer and award-winning sculptor, discusses some of his artwork. Other topics discussed include: Sumter’s Temple Sinai, changes in Jewish religious observance, and possible reasons for the decline of Jewish congregations in small Southern towns like Camden. The transcript includes comments inserted by Allan Sindler during proofreading.
3. Interview with Colleen and Nichols Condon, September 30, 2020
- Date:
- 9/30/20
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. Colleen Condon (pronouns: She/Hers/They/Theirs) and Nichols Bleckley Condon (she/hers), the first same sex couple to receive a marriage license in South Carolina, discuss their personal lives, their courtship, and suing for (and winning) marriage equality in the state. Colleen Condon speaks of her extended family and her Catholic upbringing in Charleston, noting she was so concerned with family and societal expectations that she never considered being lesbian. She married and had a son before coming out. Growing up in the upstate, Nichols Condon was not so religiously oriented. She attended Winthrop University, and also married. Both speak to their sadness in having divorces possibly sever larger familial networks. Each describe their coming out process, explaining it is not a one-time event and expressing fears of losing more conservative siblings, with Colleen Condon’s experience being more public, due to her serving on Charleston County Council and eventually as head of the County’s Democratic Party. After they met, their relationship grew quickly, with Colleen Condon humorously describing her proposal of marriage. They eventually decided to defer marriage until it became legal in South Carolina. They note the difference in LGBTQ acceptability between Charleston and Greenville, SC, mention their devotion to pets, how femme presenting lesbians are often assumed heterosexual, and other topics. When a ruling in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld same-sex marriage in its jurisdiction (including SC), the couple became involved, due to attorney Colleen Condon’s ongoing work on such issues, coordinating with Nekki Shutt, Malissa Burnett, Lambda Legal, the ACLU and South Carolina Equality. Nichols and Colleen describe swiftly escalating events, as their request for a marriage license to Charleston County Probate Judge, Irv Condon, a distant relation of Colleen’s, was accepted, but then was delayed. They gained national and international attention as they became the test case for same sex marriage in SC. Both describe the backlash and some of their fears, as Colleen Condon details the intricacies of the various cases, noting how their 2014 lawsuit against SC was part of the 2015 Supreme Court decision Obergefell v Hodges legalizing same sex marriage. They married in 2015 and both, reflecting on the ordeal, conclude it was worth it. The interview ends with Colleen Condon speaking on work that still needs to be done in SC, specifically on transgender and gender confirmation issues.
4. Interview with Harold Brody, October 21, 2021
- Date:
- 10/21/21
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. Harold (Hal) Brody (pronouns: Him/His) discusses growing up in Sumter, SC, his work and interest in the theatre, his medical education and practice as a dermatologist, and his co-founding of the national Gay and Lesbian Dermatology Association. He describes the small-town nature of Sumter, his experiences of anti-Semitism and homophobia there, and then moves on to his undergraduate experience at Duke University, where he became involved in theatrical productions, and consulted a psychiatrist to come to terms with his sexuality. Attending the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) in Charleston, SC, from 1970-74, he continued therapy, dating both men and women, and continued to pursue his passion for the theatre in Footlight Players and Charleston Opera Company productions. He mentions anti-Semitism and racial prejudice at MUSC yet reports that a representative of the Mattachine Society addressed the student body. After an externship in Boston, he went to Houston and continued at Emory University in Atlanta, where he first began to encounter HIV/AIDS patients and prejudice against them, staying on as faculty and fulfilling his career there. Soon comfortable with his sexuality, attending annual conferences of the American Academy of Dermatology, he noticed other LGBTQ physicians, and in 1980, he and a small group of friends began an organization called the Dermatology Specialists. Over the years it grew into the Gay and Lesbian Dermatology Association, incorporated in 2011, which helps advance the careers of LGBTQ dermatologists and addresses dermatological issues for people in the community, including treatment of wasting in long term HIV/AIDS survivors and cosmetic surgery for trans people. He speaks with pride of advances in his profession, mentions his association with the Jewish Historical Society of South Carolina, and talks on his continuing role in the theatre, often producing equity and non-equity shows. After the loss of a long-term partner, Brody became reacquainted with Donald Eugene Smith, whom he had met years earlier, and they married ca. 2016. He also talks about his political advocacy for Democrats in Georgia, reflects on the needs of understanding history, and speaks of mentoring younger LGBTQ dermatologists to be future leaders.
5. Interview with William "Bill" H. Carson, June 02, 2022
- Date:
- 6/2/22
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. William “Bill” H. Carson (pronouns: He/Him) discusses the challenges growing up as an African American gay male in Columbia, SC, his Harvard and medical school education, professional life as an out psychiatrist, and his subsequent international work in corporate pharmacology, while also addressing his patronage of the arts. His school teacher parents did their best to shield him from the worst aspects of segregation, with little disparagement of LGBTQ people, but with few role models available. Education was of prime importance in his environment. Turning down Senator Strom Thurmond’s appointment to the US Naval Academy, Carson went to Harvard instead, participating in the Harvard Glee Club and gay life on campus while avoiding Boston, then experiencing racial tensions. Outed just as he began to attend Case Western Reserve Medical School, he embraced the opportunities of self-growth and educating others. His status (coming out professionally before doing so with his family) continued in 1988 as he became a psychiatry resident at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston. He mentions the local LGBTQ scene, describes board work on Lowcountry AIDS Services, and the current lack of knowledge among younger gay people of the battles of that era. Beginning a long-term relationship in Charleston, Carson left in 1998 to work for Bristol Myers Squibb, in charge of life cycle management programs of the drug Abilify. That led to his 2002 employment with the Japanese company Otsuka working with the psychopharmacological drug aripiprazole. Carson talks of the learning curve regarding Japanese culture and his subsequent work with international drug conglomerates, noting his excitement in learning new skills and points of view, necessary on national and international boards. Carson is also Board Chair Emeritus of the Sphinx Organization, helping in its mission to promote the careers of Black and Hispanics in the field of classical music. He speaks of the production of Omar by Michael Abels and Rhiannon Giddens, whose world premiere at the Spoleto Festival USA in brought him back to Charleston; he also discusses being a co-producer of Pulitzer Prize winner Michael R. Jackson’s A Strange Loop on Broadway. He sums up the possibilities of gene therapy in possibly helping cure diseases such as AIDS, and despite retiring in 2020, he still stays connected with various boards and projects.
6. Interview with Kristin Graziano, May 31, 2023
- Date:
- 5/31/23
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. Kristine Graziano (pronouns: She/Her/Hers), out lesbian sheriff of Charleston County, describes growing up, her work in, and attitude to, law enforcement and other topics including domestic life and volunteer services. Born in Utica, NY in 1966, never really knowing her father until an adult, she was raised in Virginia by her mother, along with a younger brother and sister, after her parents divorced. Living near Charlottesville, and with a house on the Chesapeake Bay, Graziano spent time on the water, and credits coaches and others for inspiring her work ethic and dedication to goals. She worked her way through Piedmont Community College and the University of Virginia, attending when she could afford it. She did not find racism an issue until she came to Lowcountry in 2002; the Gullah language presented a barrier, and she was confronted with racist language and attitudes. There were no role models for coming out, but she embraced it, and it was a non-issue with her family. Her attraction to law enforcement began as a teenager. Her sister was kidnapped, and escaping, she ran into the arms of a policeman. While that was traumatic for the family, Graziano “knew right away. If I had any purpose, that needed to be my purpose.” She eventually became a master police officer in Charlottesville, when crack was an epidemic, and later served in Charleston as a deputy sheriff, working on patrols, at first out of her depth in Black rural parts of the county. She eventually made the SWAT team, first disqualified due to being a woman. Seeing the need for reform, she ran for Charleston County Sheriff in 2020 during the COVID epidemic, at first wary of, but then embracing, the Victory Fund dedicated to electing LGBTQ candidates. She shares her views of law enforcement, noting that compassion and giving chances to the incarcerated, is not weakness. She addresses changes in diversity and outreach within her department, also describing crises, such as the death of a mentally ill inmate, faced as soon she entered office. She speaks of meeting her wife, Elizabeth, the raising of their two sons, her other businesses, coaching the women’s soccer team at the College of Charleston and volunteering for Hospice.
7. Interview with James Sellers, October 13, 2023
- Date:
- 10/13/23
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. James Sellers (pronouns: Him/His) answers questions about his upbringing in the city of Charleston, SC, and his knowledge of Jack Dobbins, victim in the gay-related “Candlestick Murder” that occurred in Charleston on October 31, 1958. Speaking by phone from Quincy, Massachusetts, he recalls his childhood home at 101 Meeting Street, later the Anchor Bar, eventually torn down, his parents and brother and various homes where they lived. He speaks of the naivety of his group of friends, mistaking gay men cruising at the Battery for communists, the reluctance of adults to address such issues, his experiences acting as a teen with the Footlight Players, mentioning many there by name, and taking art lessons at the Gibbes Art Gallery (now the Gibbes Museum of Art). In March of 1958, through the Footlight Players, he met the 29-year-old Jack Dobbins, who showed an interest in the 18-year-old. With no experience, Sellers panicked and describes Dobbins’ respect in honoring his wishes and the care and respect Sellers received. They eventually developed a relationship, and when Dobbins was murdered a few months later, Sellers, then in army basic training in Columbia, SC (where the commanding officer was a friend of Dobbins), was shocked at how the victim was misrepresented in the press, and how his assailant, who bludgeoned him with a candlestick, presented a totally different version of Dobbins, contradicting everything Sellers knew of him. Unable to speak out against the verdict that set Dobbins’s killer free, Sellers eventually left Charleston for art school and relationships, while still designing costumes for the Charleston Ballet Theatre and a Tricentennial production, celebrating the state’s 300th anniversary. In passing, he mentions John Zeigler and Edwin Peacock of the Book Basement, Patricia and Emmett Robinson and Kit Lyons and Dorothy D’Anna of the Footlight Players, Russel Wragg, William Halsey, Corrie McCallum and others. Sellers eventually moved to Boston, became an occupational therapist, and turned down the opportunity to work at the Medical University of South Carolina due to his more advanced political and social views. He describes his family’s servants, coming out to his father and his mother as an adult, and how his recent reading a history of LGBTQ Charleston brought back the events to him, and how discussing them with the interviewer has brought him some closure and peace on the subject.
8. Interview with Mike Schwarzott, September 3, 2020
- Date:
- 9/3/20
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. Michael Schwarzott (pronouns: He/Him/His), dubbed the “grandfather” of the Charleston, SC area LGBTQ movement, speaks of his personal life, the navy, and being a social activist. From the Medina, NY area, Schwarzott grew up in a non-religious family, had some early same sex experiences and joined the US Navy, serving on a submarine based in Charleston, with expeditions to Rota, Spain. When found kissing another sailor in Spain, he was returned to the States and honorably discharged in 1976. In Charleston, he worked briefly at the Lion’s Head Inn gay bar, noting possible mafia connections, detailing vice squad raids, and explaining how service men were protected. He describes local gay life, mentioning taking up collections to pay bail for those, like drag queen Africa (Bryan Seabrook), arrested at the Battery. He soon returned to NY, married, and had two children. In 1989, he came back to Charleston to work in food service at the Veterans Administration. Noting changes in the city, he speaks of roommate, and later partner, cosmetologist Byron Wiles, whom Schwarzott cared for until his death from AIDS and lung cancer in 1993. He became involved with the founding of the Lowcountry Gay and Lesbian Alliance (LGLA) and describes its early meetings and members; he was also active in the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC), which drew more people than LGLA. When reporters wanted a response from the LGBTQ community about pushback against a possible gay gym, Schwarzott, vacationing in New York, agreed to speak to the press, which he did via video link. He subsequently became a visible presence, speaking out on LGBTQ issues, prompting some negative reactions from LGLA, versus positive reactions from the general public. He describes the demise of LGLA and the creation and growth of the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), noting how its 501(c) 3 IRS status helped the organization succeed. He served on AFFA’s board and continued to speak publicly as he brought in speakers including Mel White, the drag queen Lady Chablis, Troy Perry, geneticist and film maker Dean Hamer and his partner, Joe Wilson, and others. He also addresses the controversy between MCC and Open Door Christian Church and Reverend Wilhelmina Hein. One of his proudest accomplishments was bringing the AIDS Quilt to Charleston during the 1997 Spoleto Festival. He then sums up his years as an activist and encourages others to follow his footsteps.
9. Interview with George Holt, June 29, 2020
- Date:
- 6/29/20
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. George Holt (pronouns: He/Him/His), a noted small-scale developer and designer of unique homes, reflects on his life in Charleston, his founding of the newsletter Gay Charleston, and his current professional projects. Born in Madrid, Spain in 1959, he moved to Charleston with his family when his father retired from the military in 1974. He attended Stall High School and the College of Charleston and was happily astonished with what he found in the local gay bars he started attending at age 17. He describes the closeted attitudes and prejudices of the day, noting violence against LGBTQ people, and tension between gay men and lesbians, and his visit to the women’s bar, Frannie’s. Unlike others, he always believed “the world was the problem”, not him, and in a bar, the Lion’s Head, he met the gay priest who had counseled his mother when she had sought advice on her son’s homosexuality. Holt, who is White, describes the African American drag queens he knew (Bryan Seabrook aka “Africa”, Teraja, Ms Edie and Wally) and his discovery of the caste of color in local African American society. After spending time in Chicago, he returned to Charleston and with friends and advice from Armistead Maupin, launched the publication Gay Charleston in 1981. He describes the difficulties and successes of running it, noting other contributors, including Keith Griffith (1959 – 2012), later to run a sex-focused publication in San Francisco, and the local Unitarian minister, George Exoo (1942 – 2015). He also speaks of Barry Kohn (d. 1987), who revived the paper, as well as his personal and professional relationship with his partner Jerry Moran. Holt attended the first Pride March in South Carolina (ca. 1990), as well as the National March on Washington (ca. 1993). Reflecting on changes in the city, Holt expresses his delight in how younger people are much open even while they don’t understand the difficulties of the past. He explains his current interest in workers’ and immigrants’ rights, his desire to counter the mistreatment of older people, and his determination to provide sensible and pleasing housing for all, including the handicapped. At the end of the interview, he recalls how he was “set up” previously on local media, attacked for being gay, and how glad he is to let younger people take up the cause.
10. Interview with Greg Kanter, June 26, 2023
- Date:
- 6/26/23
- Description:
- Oral history interview conducted by College of Charleston Libraries Special Collections and Archives as part of the ongoing efforts to preserve, elevate, and document the stories and history of the LGBTQ+ community in South Carolina. Greg Kanter (pronouns: He/Him/His), an out gay rabbi, discusses his life, the adoption of two children, one trans, and the impact of anti-trans laws on his family. Born in Cincinnati, OH and growing up in St. Louis, MO, he lived mostly with his divorced single mother. He matriculated at Hebrew Union College after graduating from Knox College in Galesburg, IL. When finishing the degree, he realized he was gay after another student came out as lesbian. Aware of anti-gay bias, he kept quiet on his sexual orientation to achieve ordination. He was hired by a Reform congregation in Minneapolis, MN. Coming out to the senior rabbi created conflict, the congregation allowing him to finish his two-year contract. Before going public, Kanter came out to his parents and his brother, who also confessed to being gay. As part-time rabbi for a gay congregation in South Florida, Kanter grew the organization, but members rejected his desire to include families and children. He met Mike Merrill, a non-Jew, who became more conversant with Judaism, and they became partners. Wanting children, they gave up surrogacy, turning to international adoption instead. When that the adoption of a child named Elijah was imperiled, they turned to in-state adoption, with Merrill acting as a single male, LGBTQ couples not being allowed to adopt. Alayna, born premature, was in their care when then the international adoption came through, too. Elijah immediately identified as female, and both parents demanded her school accepted her as Emily, which it did, having faced similar issues with Jazz Jennings, eventually known for her public appearances and cable television show. While Kanter was accepted in a synagogue in Del Ray Beach, FL, trans issues there were not embraced. Subsequently, Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE) in Charleston, welcomed Kanter and Merrill and their two daughters. Once the SC legislature discussed bans on gender-affirming care for minors, and the Medical University of South Carolina cancelled care, Merrill began taking Emily out of state for treatment, and the couple, with Emily’s permission, went public. In July 2023, with concerns for Emily’s health, and fear of further anti-LGBTQ legislation, Kanter announced the plan to leave for another state where he and his family would be protected. Concluding, Kanter discusses being a gay rabbi in Charleston, the need for allies fighting for LGBTQ rights and an upcoming Pride service, the first in KKBE’s history.
