In the second of two interviews conducted on September 28, 2021, Sandra Lee Kahn Rosenblum describes how she came to marry, in 1955, Raymond Rosenblum, a native of Anderson, South Carolina. They lived first in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, where Raymond, an M.D. who had signed on with the U.S. Navy under the Berry Plan, was in residency, and then in Great Lakes, Illinois. By the time Raymond was discharged from service, the Rosenblums were parents to Rachel, Fred, and Bruce. They decided to settle in Charleston, South Carolina, Sandra's hometown, and Raymond went into private practice. One reason they chose Charleston was they wanted their children to grow up in a city where there was a significant Jewish presence. Sandra notes that Charleston's Jewish community was "pretty cohesive. . . . like one big extended family." Just as the Jewish Community Center (JCC) on St. Philip Street was a focal point in her life when she was growing up in Charleston, the new JCC in the suburbs became a central meeting place after she returned with husband and children in 1960. Sandra and interviewer Dale Rosengarten discuss how a heavily-packed public events calendar sponsored by the Jewish Studies Program at the College of Charleston was a factor in the eventual demise of the JCC and its programming. Sandra and Raymond's fourth child, Elaine, was born in 1963. With household help and childcare provided by Lavinia Brown and Albertha Blake, Sandra immersed herself in volunteer work in local Jewish organizations and with the medical wives auxiliary. The interviewee explains the reasoning behind the decision to send Rachel to public school, while sending the other three children to Charleston Hebrew Institute (later renamed Addlestone Hebrew Academy). When her second child, Fred, was about to enter college, Sandra started taking classes at the College of Charleston. She majored in early childhood education and special education and earned a degree in six years. She talks about being a resource teacher at Murray-LaSaine School on James Island and working with disabled children as an itinerant teacher for Charleston County. Among other topics she touches on: Raymond's family in Anderson, South Carolina; Nat Shulman, JCC director from 1945 to 1972; traveling with Raymond; vacationing with family on Sullivan's Island; and Raymond's bar mitzvah at age seventy. In 1996, Sandra began volunteering with the Jewish Historical Society of South Carolina, recording interviews with South Carolina Jews for the Jewish Heritage Collection Oral History Archives. Considering recent interviews she conducted regarding the acrimony among members of Brith Sholom Beth Israel (BSBI) and the events that led to a split in the congregation and the establishment of the Modern Orthodox synagogue Dor Tikvah, Sandra lends her view of what transpired. She also shares her feelings, as a lifelong member of BSBI, about the changes that have taken place and what she thinks the future holds for Orthodoxy in Charleston. Sandra and interviewer Dale Rosengarten talk about the changes taking place across the country in how Judaism is observed by participants in each of the major traditions and the responses of those traditions to societal conditions created by the COVID-19 pandemic. Sandra reflects on how her identity is rooted in being American, southern, and Jewish. She reports having conflicting feelings about how the Civil War and the lives of Confederates such as Robert E. Lee are being interpreted in the twenty-first century, which leads to a brief discussion about critical race theory. Sandra added comments and corrections to the transcript during proofing. See also the interview (Mss. 1035-582) that precedes this one. For related oral histories, see interviews with Sandra's cousins Ellis Kahn in 1997 (Mss. 1035-142) and Jack Kahn in 1998 (Mss. 1035-182); and Sandra's husband, Raymond Rosenblum, and his siblings in 2008 (Mss. 1035-134).
Ben Chase, who served as president of the Orthodox synagogue Brith Sholom Beth Israel (BSBI) in Charleston, South Carolina, for two years, beginning in January 2004, discusses the circumstances that led to the founding of the breakaway congregation, Dor Tikvah (Generation of Hope), across the Ashley River from downtown Charleston. Before his term as president, he was on BSBI's board for ten years, during which time most of the congregation's members, whose average age was seventy, were happy with the status quo. Most members did not live within walking distance of the synagogue, which is located on the Charleston peninsula. While many drove to services on the Sabbath, getting to the synagogue was a hardship for young families who lived West of the Ashley and wanted to be strictly observant. Further complicating matters, a small contingent preferred to meet in the congregation's long-standing minyan house in the West Ashley subdivision of South Windermere. As president, Ben felt it was his "duty to make sure that anyone that wanted to practice strict Orthodoxy would be able to do that at BSBI." He also believed that Charleston's Orthodox Jews should be united under one roof and that the future of BSBI rested on the younger members. He describes the steps he took to push the congregation into making a decision about whether to move off the peninsula, and recalls the nature of the resistance he met from members who wished to stay in the downtown building. In 2004, the year Ben became president, Rabbi David Radinsky retired after thirty-four years at BSBI, and the congregation hired Rabbi Ari Sytner. Ben talks about how the new, very young rabbi meshed with members and performed his duties after dropping into a tense situation. Opposition efforts by members reluctant to move caused a delay in bringing the decision to a vote, which did not take place until 2006, just after Ben's two-year term as president ended. The interviewee provides details about the outcome of the first round of voting that failed to produce a majority and the second round of voting in which the group that wanted to stay on the peninsula prevailed. In 2006, the West Ashley Minyan (WAM) was formed. Worshipers met in homes initially, and then rented space on the Jewish Community Center campus on Wallenburg Boulevard in West Ashley. After four years, they hired Rabbi Michael Davies, and, in 2012, Dor Tikvah was incorporated. At the time of this interview, Chase, a member of the relatively new Modern Orthodox congregation, insists, "To this day, I still believe that the Orthodoxy in Charleston should be under one roof."
Sandra Lee Kahn Rosenblum was born in 1935 in Charleston, South Carolina, the eldest of two children of Julius and Edna Goldberg Kahn, both of whom immigrated to the United States from Lithuania. She talks briefly about her parents' families and how Julius, who lived in Charleston, was introduced to Edna, a Baltimore, Maryland, resident. They married in 1934, and Edna moved to Charleston, where Julius, with his brother Robbie Kahn, was in the wholesale grocery business on East Bay Street. Sometime later, the siblings parted ways, each setting up his own shop on King street. Sandra remembers living in the Frewil Apartments on the corner of Smith and Vanderhorst streets, as a young child, followed by a move to Rutledge Avenue, near Bogard Street, a location she describes as "idyllic." When she was fifteen, the Kahns moved to a house at 45 Spring Street, where her father built a small store on the same lot. She says, the neighborhood was like a "slum," but they could no longer afford the rent for the apartment on Rutledge. "Ultimately, he (Julius) went belly up. . . . He was not a businessman." The Kahns were members of the Orthodox synagogue Beth Israel, but Sandra's mother sent her to Hebrew school at Brith Sholom, the older of the two Orthodox shuls in the city. Sandra was confirmed at Brith Sholom. She discusses with the interviewers Brith Sholom adopting the practice of confirmation for girls. Interviewer Dale Rosengarten notes that she was told by a Beaufort resident that their synagogue began offering confirmation to satisfy mothers who wanted a rite of passage for their daughters. Sandra states that, as a child, being Jewish was a significant part of her identity and the Jewish youth groups Young Judaea and Aleph Zadik Aleph (AZA) were central to her life (she was an AZA Sweetheart). She responds to questions about Brith Sholom's junior congregation; recalls Seymour Barkowitz, her homeroom teacher in high school; and reports that she never experienced any overt antisemitism as a child. Interviewee provided comments and corrections to the transcript during proofing. See the follow-up (Mss. 1035-583) to this interview also conducted on September 28, 2021. For related oral histories, see interviews with Sandra's cousins Ellis Kahn in 1997 (Mss. 1035-142) and Jack Kahn in 1998 (Mss. 1035-182); and Sandra's husband, Raymond Rosenblum, and his siblings in 2008 (Mss. 1035-134).
Benedict "Dick" Rosen, in the third of three interviews, talks about his children, Andrew, Greg, and Heidi, and his grandchildren. He identifies primarily as a southerner, rather than a Jew. "That's because being Jewish has never made any difference in my life." And yet, interviewer Dale Rosengarten observes, he and his children married within the faith. He revisits the subject of growing up in Georgetown, South Carolina, noting that he did not experience any antisemitism. "I never had a feeling I was different than anybody else." The same has been true for him as an adult. Rosengarten speculates about the reasons why that may be so. Dick's recollection of segregation prompts a discussion of present-day issues of police brutality, black-on-black crime, mass shootings, gun control, and the death penalty. Dick and Dale share their personal views on Israel. Dick has no special affinity for Israel and doesn't see it as a Jewish homeland. "Being Jewish is not a nationality. It's a religion." Both Rosen and Rosengarten have served as trustees on the board of the Belle W. Baruch Foundation of Hobcaw Barony in Georgetown. Dale raises the question of how their Jewish identity might have been considered useful to the board's mission. Both touch on the effect the Holocaust has had on their lives. The transcript contains corrections made during proofing by Dick's son Andy. For a related interview, see Sylvan and Meyer Rosen, Mss. 1035-035.
In this second of three interviews, Benedict "Dick" Rosen continues a discussion about intermarriage. When he was growing up in Georgetown, South Carolina, his family was strongly tied to its Jewish identity. The Rosens were members of Beth Elohim in Georgetown, and Dick took Hebrew lessons from Rabbi Allan Tarshish of Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim in Charleston. His family observed the holidays to some degree. Dick discusses why he doesn't go to synagogue services anymore, with the exception of Yom Kippur. He and his wife, Brenda, nevertheless donate to two synagogues: Beth Elohim in Georgetown, "for Mom and Dad," and Temple Emanu-El in Myrtle Beach. One gift went toward Emanu-El's Rosen Education Center, completed in 2002. Dick talks about meeting his wife, Brenda Wekstein, while he was attending Massachusetts Institute of Technology. They married in 1958 in Boston. Interviewer Dale Rosengarten mentions the role Sumter native Elizabeth Moses played in reviving the Georgetown congregation in 2004. Rosen outlines his career in engineering, starting at Sprague Electric in Massachusetts designing capacitors. Then he joined AVX, first in Massachusetts, then Myrtle Beach. Ultimately, he became CEO of AVX. Dick recalls his travels while in management at AVX. The company built factories all over the world and, when Kyocera bought AVX, he became their representative director. He mentions AVX CEO Marshall Butler and briefly describes the trichloroethylene lawsuits filed against the company. For a related interview, see Sylvan and Meyer Rosen, Mss. 1035-035.
Benedict "Dick" Rosen was born on April 20, 1936, in Columbia, South Carolina, the first of two children, to Erma Levkoff and Sylvan Rosen. Sylvan completed law school a month later, and the Rosens moved to Sylvan's hometown, Georgetown, South Carolina. In this interview, the first of three sessions, Dick talks about the different branches of his South Carolina Jewish family tree, including the Suraskys, the Weinbergs, the Schneiders, and the Lewenthals. He notes that he lacks information about the Rosens. Dick describes growing up in Georgetown. At that time, there were no other Jewish children to play with, and he didn't belong to any Jewish youth groups. As a young child, nothing he ate agreed with him, and he was not thriving. When the doctor told his mother that bacon was the solution, her mother, Jennie Surasky Levkoff, who kept a kosher kitchen, stepped in to help. Rosen married Brenda Wekstein of Massachusetts. He says all his kids have Jewish spouses, but his grandchildren are marrying outside the faith. Dick discusses his father's education, political career, and involvement in Jewish organizations. Sylvan Rosen opened a law practice in Georgetown, where he served as councilman and mayor. For a related interview, see Sylvan and Meyer Rosen, Mss. 1035-035.
Peter Rosenthal, who moved with his wife and children from South Africa to Charleston, South Carolina, in 1989, discusses the events that led to the formation of the West Ashley Minyan (WAM) and Congregation Dor Tikvah in Charleston. WAM formed in 2006 after several members of Charleston's Orthodox synagogue, Brith Sholom Beth Israel (BSBI), began meeting for Sabbath services in their homes. They were reluctant to return to BSBI after a contentious meeting during which a controversial vote determined the congregation would remain downtown instead of moving to a suburban location. Rosenthal outlines changes at BSBI and WAM that occurred in the years leading up to the founding of the Modern Orthodox Dor Tikvah in 2012 by members of WAM. He believes "that the trends that gave rise to WAM and Dor Tikvah arose from within, but also from outside . . . BSBI." He identifies key figures and events in WAM's formation and growth and Dor Tikvah's establishment. Interviewer and Charleston native Sandra Rosenblum notes that "the Jewish community of Charleston, at some point, became a big extended family." Rosenthal feels the intermingling of Jews of different traditions that she refers to is behind the origins of WAM. He describes WAM's founding as organic and spontaneous, fueled by young adults who wanted to be more observant.
Jefferson "Jeff" Tobias Figg was born in 1936, and raised in Charleston, South Carolina, the youngest of three children of Sallie Alexander Tobias and Robert McCormick Figg, Jr. Sallie was descended from Joseph Tobias, founding president of Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim, established in Charleston in 1749. Jeff talks about growing up south of Broad Street and shares stories about various family members, including his elder siblings, Robert and Emily; his paternal uncle, Thomas Jefferson Tobias, and Thomas's wife, Rowena Wilson; his cousins David and Judith Tobias; and his maternal grandmother, Hortense Alexander Tobias. Jeff observes, "We have never been a particularly Jewish or Christian family." His mother, Sallie, was not notably observant as a Jew, though her mother was, and, according to Jeff, her brother, Thomas Tobias, "was obsessed with Judaism." Jeff's father, Robert, was raised by Baptists and did not adhere to any organized religion as an adult. The interviewee notes: "I've always considered myself Jewish. I feel it inside of me." For several summers, he attended Sky Valley Camp, near Hendersonville, North Carolina, run by an Episcopalian minister. Jeff describes his father's career as a lawyer, particularly his role in representing the state of South Carolina in Briggs v. Elliott. He briefly covers his father's tenure as the head of the law school at the University of South Carolina and his involvement with the South Carolina Port Authority. Jeff married Catherine "Kitty" Louise Cox in 1961, and they raised three children, Susan, Catherine, and Robert, in Charleston. Figg touches on his career with Xerox and the Adolph Coors Company, where he headed the sales department. He tells stories about prominent South Carolinians Strom Thurmond, James Byrnes, and Burnet Maybank; and he recalls Jewish Charlestonians Milton Pearlstine, Walter Solomon, and Solomon Breibart. Jeff's daughter Susan, who joined him in this interview, contrasts the message of the bestselling book "The Help" with her relationship with the black woman who worked for her grandmother. For a related collection, see the Thomas J. Tobias papers, Mss. 1029.
In her second interview for the Jewish Heritage Collection, Leah Feinberg Chase describes how she was drawn to journalism. The Georgia native earned a certificate from the University of Georgia's Peabody School of Journalism after taking classes for one year as a special student. The abbreviated program accommodated her plan to marry Philip Chase of Charleston, South Carolina, in 1957. The couple raised their four children in Charleston. Leah provides details about her career at WCSC-TV in Charleston, including the various positions she filled from copy writing to producing and cohosting shows in the 1960s and '70s. She credits WCSC owner John Rivers, Sr., with fostering creativity and independence in the work environment, and that extended to the women working at the station. Leah never encountered sexual harassment there, nor did she feel as though she had to prove herself to the men with whom she worked. She experienced one antisemitic incident that Rivers responded to with a vehement threat to fire the culprit, in the event that person's identity was revealed. Otherwise, being Jewish did not pose any difficulties, for example, when Chase wanted to take time off for religious holidays. Around 1980, the interviewee was hired by John Rivers, Jr., to produce videos for a company called Custom Video. Leah discusses working for that outfit and for United Christian Broadcasting Company of Atlanta, for whom she produced video in Israel for the film "Where Jesus Walked." In the 1980s, she turned down an offer to produce Mike Hiott's WCSC TV program to become editor of Charleston Jewish Federation's newspaper, "Center Talk," later renamed "Charleston Jewish Journal." She briefly outlines her work as editor and the recognition the Journal received from the General Assembly of the Council of Jewish Federations and the Advertising Federation of Charleston. Leah revisits her involvement in the Foreign Affairs Forum, mentioned in her first interview, remarking that while she held the positions of secretary, treasurer, and vice president, she believes the male-dominated group would not have elected her president had she pursued the office. The transcript contains comments and corrections made by the interviewee during proofing. See Mss. 1035-563 for Chase's January 31, 2020, interview.
Paul Garfinkel, member and past president of the Orthodox Brith Sholom Beth Israel Synagogue (BSBI) in Charleston, South Carolina, talks about events leading to the formation of Congregation Dor Tikvah in 2012 by former members of BSBI. He notes that the idea of moving the synagogue out of the downtown area was a topic of discussion even before he took his first position on the BSBI board as recording secretary in 1973. Leaders of the synagogue on Rutledge Avenue resisted moving but did allow the establishment, in 1965, of the South Windermere Minyan House, in association with BSBI. The Minyan House, located in the South Windermere subdivision just across the Ashley River from downtown Charleston, was home to many Jewish Charlestonians who had moved off the peninsula to the suburbs in the 1950s. Decades later, a number of observant Jewish families had settled in the neighborhoods surrounding the Jewish Community Center (JCC), which in 1966 had relocated west of the Ashley—too far to walk to BSBI or the South Windermere Minyan House. Paul describes the efforts of Ben Chase, president of BSBI from 2004 to 2006, to lead the congregation in settling the question of whether to move. The vote, which took place right after Chase's term ended, found that a slim majority of congregants wished to stay downtown. Besides wanting to have a synagogue nearby, some members who lived near the JCC were dissatisfied with how the congregation was being run. They felt decisions were being made by a select few in leadership positions. In 2006, they formed the West Ashley Minyan (WAM). A few BSBI congregants tried to find a way for the WAM to become a second minyan associated with BSBI, but members of WAM found the conditions required by synagogue leaders too difficult to meet. Paul discusses reasons some BSBI members did not want to move the synagogue. One person, who lived a block from the downtown synagogue, was determined it would not move. He was "such a powerful force in the congregation that people did not want to go against him personally." Another strong factor has been sentimental attachment to the building itself. Paul remains a member of BSBI, remarking that he was "literally brought up in that building," and he thinks "it's important to keep the family tradition going." However, he points to the depletion of BSBI's financial resources. Although membership is declining, the congregation continues to spend large amounts of money to repair ongoing structural problems on the property. He believes a small city like Charleston will be unable to support two Orthodox synagogues and would like to see the congregations reunited. See transcript for a correction made by the interviewee during proofing.
Samuel Steinberg was born in 1936 in Charleston, South Carolina, the second of two children of Anita Hannah de Sola Williams and Leon Steinberg. Samuel's paternal grandfather, also named Samuel Steinberg, emigrated from Kobryn, Russia, in the late 1800s, following family to Augusta, Georgia. He moved to Charleston after marrying Anna Belle Kaminski and joined her family's scrap metal business. Samuel describes the business, Charleston Steel & Metal, still in existence at the time of this interview, in some detail, in particular how it changed after he joined his father and uncle in running it in 1961. Samuel shares with interviewer Dale Rosengarten the de Sola family tree, which dates back to the ninth century, and the two consider his Sephardic and Ashkenazic backgrounds. Samuel notes that "when my mother, who was a very observant Reform Jew, married my father, who was a . . . practicing Orthodox Jew, it was like oil and water." The family attended synagogue services in Charleston at both the Orthodox Brith Sholom and the Reform K.K. Beth Elohim. Steinberg and Rosengarten discuss Charleston's Uptown Jews and Downtown Jews, a distinction covered in Arthur Williams's book Tales of Charleston 1930s, and Samuel reflects on his father's views about being an American Jew. The interviewee added comments and corrections to the transcript during proofing. See Mss. 1035-594 for a second interview with Samuel Steinberg.
Joseph Kelly (b. 1962) describes his experience growing up in an Irish American family living in New Jersey and Texas. The only background information he knows of regarding his family is that his paternal great-grandfather was from Roscommon, and that he came over to New York City in the late 1890?s. Both of his parents grew up in Irish neighborhoods in the Bronx and were the first generation in the family to go to college. The family moved from New Jersey to Houston in the late seventies, and he notes that there was not a real sense of Irish ethnicity in Houston, as compared to what it was in the Northeast. He also notes that the sense of Irish culture, and celebration of Irishness, is growing in Charleston as a result of the public outreach he has done as Director of the Irish and Irish American Studies program at CofC.
Thomas Horan describes his experience growing up in an Irish American family in Boston. The paternal side of his family comes from County Galway, his paternal grandmother having come to the United States when she was sixteen, before Irish independence. His maternal grandmother married a man of Scotch-Irish descent. He was raised in the Catholic Church, as a result of what he refers to as an insistence on ?middle-class respectability,? and his family was close with some of the priests from the area, however, he is no longer an active participant in the Church. Though living in an area with a lot of Irish meant that the family didn?t experience any particularly significant discrimination, there was a sense of wanting to assimilate and move up into the middle class. He moved to the South in 1999, first to attend graduate school at Chapel Hill, and then to Charleston. He states that, in terms of anti-Irish or anti-Catholic sentiment in the South, there seems to be more continuity in population here than in northern cities, which perhaps makes things harder for new ethnic populations to integrate.
Anne Owens speaks about her experience growing up Irish American, having Irish ancestors on both sides of her family. She spent her childhood in California but moved to Charleston after her mother remarried. Her maternal grandmother?s family came from Anglo-Irish roots in County Offlay in the 1860?s, entering the U.S. in Boston and making their way to Michigan. Her paternal grandmother?s family was from County Fermanagh and came to the U.S. in the early 1800?s, through Georgetown, South Carolina, and eventually settled in Cheraw. It is through this side of the family that Anne is related to Patrick Lynch, who became Bishop of Charleston in 1855. Her great-great grandfather, James Thomas Lynch, married a woman from the Pinckney family, so Anne has deep family roots here in Charleston, as well as in Colleton County, where her great-great grandparents owned the Ashepoo Plantation. However, Anne also has a familial connection with her stepfather?s family, who are native Charlestonians, as her research has led her to discover that her biological father and her stepfather are in fact cousins, due to their shared Charleston roots. She feels a deep connection with the Shannon River area in Ireland, where her maternal ancestors had lived for centuries as landed gentry. Though she sees ethnic identity becoming less prominent as the years go on, she likes ?seeing America as an amalgamation of many, many people.?
William McCann speaks about his experience growing up as part of an Irish American and Italian American family in New York. While his great-great grandparents came to the United States from Longford and Wicklow in the 1850?s and took up blue-collar jobs, the family has little knowledge of family stories or memories from that time, as William?s paternal grandfather passed away when his father was in his teens. Because he had more contact with older relatives from his maternal, Italian, side during childhood, the majority of William?s experience of Irishness has been through relationships with his friends in New York, some who have parents that are native Irish. He feels that Irish identity is less prominent in the South, that there is less of a culture built around Irishness.
Michaela Henderson talks about her experience growing up in an Irish American family in Connecticut. Her great-grandmother came over from Valentia Island in the late 1800?s/early 1900?s and the family settled in the New Haven area. Her family relocated to Charleston her freshman year of high school and has lived in the area since then. While her family was very involved in an Irish organization in Connecticut, she feels that there is less of a centralized Irish American presence in Charleston, and that claiming a Southern identity seems more important here than claiming a specific ethnic background, such as Irish. However, she is hopeful that the situation seems to be changing, with more emphasis on ways to celebrate Irish heritage here in Charleston.
Stephen Gilroy talks about his experience growing up in an Irish American family in New York City and New Jersey. His grandparents came from County Leitrim, County Longford, County Cork, and County Waterford from the mid-1800?s to the very early 1900?s. All of his grandparents were in the working-class, as cabinet makers, butchers, dock-workers, and other blue-collar jobs. There wasn?t much focus on Irishness in his family while he was growing up, though he did have a strong relationship with an uncle who told him about all of the Irish families in the area. He?s been to Ireland with his family and has been to the church in County Leitrim where his paternal grandparents are from. He feels a connection with Ireland, which he describes as a ?magical? place. He and his wife moved to Charleston recently to be near their daughter, and he states that there is less of an emphasis on ethnic identity in Charleston, and more emphasis on a general Southern identity.
Eric Sullivan (Pronouns: He/Him/His) describes growing up Easton, Maryland, moving to Charleston, SC to attend the College of Charleston, his graduate school training in Los Angeles, CA and his work as an LGBTQ therapist. One of five siblings, Sullivan knew he was different at "a pretty young age," and had a sense that he was gay before fully understanding what that meant. He "never got any messages growing up?about ? what the LGBTQ community was," but did have access to television programs such as Will and Grace and Queer as Folk. Coming out first to a friend, and then to his mother, he came out in "a public declarative statement" as part of a high school group project studying conversion therapy, realizing he could not just remain "a neutral party." He had experienced some negative responses before coming out, but very little afterwards. Sullivan explains his decision to attend the College of Charleston where he had his "first glimpse into gay culture" at a gay straight alliance meeting and at the gay bar Patrick's, and later Pantheon, both of which he describes. He notes with satisfaction how LGBTQ visibility has increased on campus since his years in school and recounts how a chance encounter working as waiter led him to graduate school in Los Angeles in the first LGBTQ counseling program in the country. He worked with homeless LGBTQ youth, adapted to the life there, was licensed and eventually moved back to Charleston, where, after some trepidation, he opened a practice specifically targeting LGBTQ clients. Responding to queries from people throughout the state seeking his services, he developed a successful on-line video practice before the COVID 19 pandemic. The interview concludes with Sullivan discussing the impacts of isolation, religion, and the lack of visibility on South Carolina's LGBTQ community, as well as other mental health issues.
Jack Sewell (pronouns: He/Him) speaks mostly of his life in Charleston, the various businesses in which he was engaged, and gay life, characters, and bars in the city. Born as a twin in Oklahoma, he grew up in Texas, was raised in a conservative Southern Baptist household and joined the Navy, which brought him to Charleston in 1966. While mostly closeted, to stay in the service, Sewell nevertheless visited many gay clubs, despite their being banned by the Shore Patrol, and he mentions the Navy investigating sailors for homosexual activities. In reply to questions, he names and describes many of the bars in town including The Wagon Wheel, The Ocean Bar and Grill, Pat's Lounge, the Stardust Lounge, the Bat Room, and "the Tiltin' Hilton" on Folly Beach, among others, including a gay bar he and his partner tried to open on Market Street, but which failed due to the curfew imposed by martial law during the 1969 Hospital Worker's strike. He also describes homophobia, vice squad raids, pay offs, cruising on the Battery and makes mention of the YMCA and bus station and other bathrooms. Out of the Navy, he first had odd jobs, including working as a debt collector, which led to visiting Dawn Langley Simmons. He and his partner began working as carpenters, building cabinetry for many businesses, bringing them in contact with many Jewish merchants and building owners whom he describes. The couple first opened "head" shops named A Different World, catering to a hippy clientele, in Charleston and Orangeburg and later opened a series of restaurants called The Hungry Lion in a variety of locations in the city, with the main location being near the College of Charleston on George Street. Sewell, who eventually bought out his partner, worked long days, often as the chief cook, as well doing numerous other tasks, eventually commuting from McClellanville, SC to where he retired in 2014. In the course of the interview he mentions? the Davis building, site of the Hungry Lion and the owners, a Jewish family in London, Jules Garvin, Bobby Tucker, Clifton Harris, Jr., whose murder on the Battery in 2006 is still unsolved, Joe Trott and other colorful gay characters. He also explains the coded vocabulary he and his friends used, mentions later bars such as the Garden and Gun Club, Les Jardins, and working at the Arcade Club and the restaurant Spanky's associated with it. He ends speaking of life in McClellanville and the man who means so much to him, Dewey Williams, a partner of 39 years, whom he married at the Lincoln Memorial in 2010.?
James Bouknight, MD, PhD (pronouns: He/His), white psychiatrist, speaks of growing up, family life, education and his personal and professional life. Born into a "close and loving family" in rural South Carolina, he grew up on a farm worked by others, his parents being teachers, and his maternal grandparents being a very supportive presence. He always knew he "wasn't like other kids", wasn't athletic, but excelled in school, attending Bishopville High School, as it was being integrated, calling off the junior senior. Aware of a flamboyant gay youth at school, and a gay man who was available for sex in Bishopville, Bouknight did not identify with them and was glad to start dating women when he attended Wofford, the fourth generation of his family to do so. Attending graduate school at Duke University was not a positive experience so Bouknight switched to the University of South Carolina where he had his first relationship with a man and earned his PhD in economics. He considers that relationship a "bad influence" since the man was closeted and engaged to be married. Bouknight then taught at Converse College, in an era when dating between professors and students was encouraged; he married the president of the student body, and their married life began well. He moved into the private sector and eventually became Chair of the Department of Business and Economics at Columbia College and his wife began law school. With time on his hands, Bouknight, keeping fit, began attending the YMCA in Columbia, SC, discovering it had an active gay scene, and his wife, learning of an affair he had with a man, demanded a divorce. It was a difficult time, leading to depression and financial straits. Finding a niche with happy, well-adjusted gay men in Columbia was a positive experience, and Bouknight began a relationship with Bob Stutts, another professor at Columbia College. At age thirty-five, he decided to enter medical school, realizing that the poor medical care his mother had received had led to her death. He attended the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, was out, and was friends with many other gay medical students. He did his residency in psychiatry at the Department of Mental Health in Columbia, SC, founding and running an AIDS support group; he eventually worked for a hospital and had a private practice, including many LGBTQ patients. When his relationship with Bob Stutts ended, he met Ramsey Still, whom he married in Maryland in 2013. He became board certified in geriatric psychiatry, one of the first in the state, and now, semi-retired, lives with his husband in Charleston, SC. At the end of the interview, Bouknight speaks of the illness and eventual death of his medical school friend, Olin Jolley, MD, of AIDS, and how those who are ill and dying are often put in the unfair position of taking care of those who visit them.
Terri Wolff Kaufman, in the first of two back-to-back interviews, describes her family tree with a focus on her paternal grandparents. Henry Wolff, a Polish-German immigrant, opened the Henry Wolff Department Store in Allendale, South Carolina, in 1901. He married Rachel "Ray" Pearlstine, daughter of Rebecca Tobish and Louis Pearlstine, of Branchville, South Carolina, and they raised their children, Cecile, Sura, and the interviewee's father, Louis Michael Wolff in Allendale. When Henry, who was much older than Rachel, died in 1914, Rachel took over the business and adopted the name "Ray" after their regular vendors declared, "We don't do business with women." Sura's husband, Sam Wengrow, assumed control of the store upon Ray's death in 1936. Terri, born in 1955 in Columbia, South Carolina, shares her memories of visiting the store as a young child and refers, during the interview, to photographs taken when her grandfather was the proprietor. Louis Wolff married Elsie Benenson in 1952. Elsie, the interviewee's mother, hailed from Atmore, Alabama, near Mobile. Terri discusses her father's education and career as an architect. He received his undergraduate degree from Clemson College in 1931 and his architectural degree from the University of Pennsylvania two years later. Considered a modernist, Louis became a principal in the firm Lyles, Bissett, Carlisle & Wolff in 1946. An example of his work is the former Tree of Life Synagogue at 2701 Heyward Street in Columbia, South Carolina, completed in 1952. Terri briefly mentions other buildings in Columbia that the firm designed and her father's various jobs early in his career, including his stint in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers in Europe during World War II. See Mss. 1035-565 for Terri's second interview and Mss. 1035-212 for an interview with Terri's aunt Sura Wolff Wengrow. For a related collection, see the Wolff family papers, Mss. 1045.
Terri Wolff Kaufman, in this second of two interviews, talks about growing up in Columbia, South Carolina, where she was born in 1955 to Elsie Benenson and Louis Wolff. Louis, an architect, designed the large modern house in which Terri and her younger siblings, Frances, Michael, and Bruce, were raised. Terri notes instances of antisemitism that she experienced as a child and tells the story of how her father and his business partners at Lyles, Bissett, Carlisle & Wolff handled discriminatory treatment directed at Louis by the Summit Club in Columbia. Louis's awareness of prejudice against Jews and African Americans in Columbia was evident when he discouraged Terri from meeting a black friend out in public, knowing that the association would make life more difficult for Terri and the family. The interviewee shares stories about her siblings, describes her parents' social life and civic activities, and recalls the African Americans who worked for her family in their home. The Wolffs belonged to Columbia's Reform congregation, Tree of Life, and observed the Sabbath by lighting candles on Friday nights before going to services. While they did not keep kosher, Louis insisted that a couple of food restrictions be followed. Terri was studying to be an actor in New York when her father died suddenly. She ended up earning a graduate degree in media arts and working in the television industry in Los Angeles. Terri and her ex-husband, Jack Kaufman, raised their son, Alex, in the Jewish tradition in Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. The interviewee finds it more "comfortable" living as a Jew in large northern cities as compared with the South, where Judaism is not as familiar or well understood. However, she thinks Jews who live in places with smaller Jewish populations are more likely to get involved in Jewish organizations as a way to connect with other Jews, as she has since her recent move to the Charleston area. Terri is married to a non-Jewish man, Vernon Dunning, and they are members of Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim in Charleston, South Carolina. See Mss. 1035-564 for Terri's first interview and Mss. 1035-212 for an interview with Terri's aunt Sura Wolff Wengrow. For a related collection, see the Wolff family papers, Mss. 1045.
Leah Feinberg Chase was born in 1938 in West Point, Georgia, the eldest of three girls of Norma Beryl Goldstein and Morris Feinberg. In this interview, she talks about growing up in the small Georgia town bordering Alabama, roughly eighty miles southwest of Atlanta, then home to West Point Manufacturing Company. Her father opened a shoe repair business in West Point, later switching to ladies' and children's ready-to-wear clothing. Leah was the only Jewish student when she was attending the public schools in town. She says she "never experienced outright antisemitism in West Point," and she had many friends. "We were very cliquish." Yet, she notes "I always felt I was different," pointing out that she spent her weekends doing very different activities than her Christian friends. She and her sisters, Helen and Ina, attended Sunday school in Columbus, Georgia, where her paternal grandparents, Jake and Ida Feinberg, lived. Other weekends she traveled to youth group functions, such as Young Judaea conventions. Leah married Philip Chase of Charleston, South Carolina, in 1957. For a year before their marriage, she studied journalism at the University of Georgia, while Philip finished his last year in college at The Citadel. They raised four children?Stephen, David, Benjamin, and Freda?in Charleston. Leah describes her career in journalism at Channel 5, WCSC-TV; Custom Video; and Charleston Jewish Federation, where she edited the Federation's newspaper, Charleston Jewish Journal, which won national awards at the General Assembly of Council of Jewish Federations. The Journal also attracted unwanted attention during her tenure at the paper. She received death threats, including a bomb threat to Chase Furniture, the family business, prompting police protection. Leah gives an overview of the local civic organizations, Jewish and non-Jewish, that she has belonged to and served over the past decades, in particular the Foreign Affairs Forum. She makes note of her advocacy for and regular visits to Israel. Thirty years prior to the interview, Leah made a career change and became a travel agent. Other topics discussed include how observant Leah is of Jewish traditions compared with her parents, and an antisemitic incident that occurred when she applied for a job at the Evening Post/News and Courier in the late 1950s/early '60s. The transcript contains corrections made by the interviewee during proofing.
Douglas Seymour (pronouns: He/Him/His) relates the story of his abusive childhood, growing up and attending school and college in Charleston, SC, his life as an adult, and his work as a peer navigator for people with HIV, often speaking forcefully on the corrosive impact of homophobia. He was beaten by his father for not liking sports and cars, and, although he adored his mother, she told him “being gay was worse than being a child molester and a child murderer.” He always knew he was attracted to men, and if “there hadn’t been the hitch of being told it was wrong...it would have been a natural flow into adulthood.” He graduated First Baptist High School, and due to his father’s demands, attended the Citadel, terrified that he would be picked on for being gay. There, however, he found acceptance among upperclassmen for his knowledge of pop music and found other gay cadets. Having started frequenting the bar Basin Street South as an underage teen, he began going to the King Street Garden and Gun Club, and Seymour recalls his times there and that era of the late 1970s and early 1980s as one of the happiest periods of his life. After college, he worked as a journalist in Summerville, SC, and he describes the cliquish nature of Charleston gay life at the time. His lack of self-esteem, he says, prompted his alcoholism and his settling into personal relationships that were often abusive. He lived in Washington, DC, from 1982 to 1991 and returned to Charleston with a diagnosis of AIDS, told by physicians to prepare to die. After living with his parents, and coming out to them, he moved into his own apartment and received health care from his physician and Lowcountry AIDS Services. Facing health crises, he quit drinking and quit smoking, hired a personal trainer and was in the best shape of his life in his fifties. He began to work for the local Ryan White program as a peer navigator for people newly diagnosed or those long-term survivors like himself. Seymour describes some of the social support programs he set up and notes the quandary of “a whole bunch of us gay men...[with] no career, no retirement...because we weren’t supposed to be here, and now we’re older, we’re isolated...[and] it kind of feels like nobody wants you.” The interview ends with reflections on the lack of a variety of specific spaces for LGBTQ people and how Charleston has changed over the years.
Blanche McCrary Boyd (pronouns: she/her/hers) describes the events that lead to her becoming an acclaimed novelist and professor at Connecticut College. Born in Charleston, SC in 1945 to working class parents, she lost her father at age 15, one of the crucial events of her life. Living with family on a 400-acre plantation near Rantowles, SC, she became “radicalized” by events seen on television, realizing, unlike other members of her family, that she lived in a racist society, finding a “sense of horror” and a “sense of beauty” in the South. She attended Duke University and met Dean Boyd, the man she married, while attending Harvard University summer school. Boyd credits her husband for helping her mature and encouraging her writing once she decided upon that as a goal. Moving to California, Boyd began writing seriously at Pomona College, and won a Wallace Stegner Fellowship in creative writing at Stanford University. Her marriage unraveled, as she discovered feminism, and her attraction to women, bringing her to a “different reality.” She had starting drinking alcohol soon after her father’s death and she spent over a decade abusing it and drugs as she moved to New York and became a “radical lesbian.” She helped set type for the classic novel Rubyfruit Jungle by Rita Mae Brown, and founded Sagaris, an “institute for feminist thought,” associating with leading feminists, including accused bomber Patricia Swinton. She published essays, mostly about the South, in The Village Voice, learned how to “seize” her authority, and published books on popular musicians under the name Vivian Claire. She returned to Charleston, continuing writing and publishing novels, becoming sober in 1981. She discusses how a teenage car wreck involving a Black man’s death became the “fulcrum of my understanding of life” and how it serves as a metaphor for America as she wonders “what white people who are anti-racist are going to do about white supremacy.” She and her wife Leslie are the mothers of twins, James and Julia, and Boyd reflects on parenting, Leslie’s life-threatening illnesses, and how her novel Tomb of the Unknown Racist has capped her fiction writing career. As retirement from Connecticut College looms, she assesses her accomplishments, notes satisfactions, and the many surprising turns her life took.
Michael Lott (pronouns: He/Him/His). In the first of two oral history interviews, Michael Lott discusses his early years, his family, coming out, training and practice as a psychiatrist, his personal and professional life in New York City in the era of AIDS, and his health and retirement. Born in Norfolk, VA, he grew up in the Charleston, SC area on James Island, closely connected to his mother and grandfather, but alienated from his father, whom he was told was his stepfather until he was eight. Deeply religious, he would try “to pray the gay away” after various youthful sexual encounters, even as he mentions religious figures who were gay. He began college at Furman and finished at the College of Charleston, experiencing and describing closeted gay life on campus, in bars, like the Garden and Gun Club, and the city. Engaged briefly, he broke that off and was condemned for his sexual orientation by his Campus Crusade for Christ friends. His own near-death and the death of his brother prompted him to begin living an authentic life as he began his studies at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) in 1980. He briefly mentions being on a plane hijacked to Cuba along with a gay CIA agent, and speaks more fully of homophobia at MUSC aimed at him and at an early AIDS patient at Charleston County Hospital. Serving on national medical school boards and committees, he engaged in gay and lesbian related causes, continuing his education in San Francisco (under a doctor who was a part of the Dan White murder trial) and did his residency in New York City, as it experienced the crises of AIDS, crack, and homelessness. Moving there in 1985 as “a farm boy from South Carolina” he eventually ran “with the Saint [disco] crowd”, partied with “beautiful people” on Fire Island and eventually became known as “the Tommy Tune of Death” for helping choreograph the exits of many friends lost to AIDS. He taught at New York University before “selling out” to work for drug companies, eventually going on disability due to his own HIV status. A slow progressor, diagnosed in 1989, he did not go on medications until 2016. Lott moved to Asheville, NC in 2019 and was settling in when the COVID-19 pandemic began. He speaks favorably of the city’s liberal attitudes and ends speaking about the sadness of all his losses but his happiness that younger LGBTQ people have not had to endure experiences similar to his.
In his second oral history, Michael Lott (pronouns: He/Him/His) adds some information to fill out his first interview. He speaks of an early closeted boyfriend from Goose Creek, SC who killed himself probably due to his homosexuality, tells of his medical training in Charleston, SC where he encountered homophobia, and in New York City where many of his peers and professors were gay. He mentions knowing AIDS activist and author Larry Kramer, noting how Kramer transposed real events into his play The Normal Heart; he also discusses his friendship and admiration for gay activist and scholar Vito Russo. He describes his participation with the Gay Men’s Health Crisis AIDS fund-raising parties at the Pines on Fire Island, recalls professors who helped him at the College of Charleston, speaks of student and fraternity life there, and mentions future College President Glenn McConnell, as well as his experience with friends and patients during the AIDS crisis in New York.
Alan Banov, a native of Charleston, South Carolina, tells the story of his great-grandfather Alexander Banov (Banovich), who was born in a Polish town called Kopcheve, modern-day Kapciamiestis, Lithuania, and lived in Nemnovo in what is today Belarus. Alexander, who immigrated to the United States in 1889, came to Charleston, where his brother Isaac Wolfe Banov had settled. Daughter Rebecca followed her father first, then came son Cassell, and finally, Alexander's wife, Sonia Danilovich, and their remaining children, Rachel, David, and Leizer, in 1895. Relying on information from his great-uncle David Banov's oral history, Alan recounts living conditions in Nemnovo, and the trip from Russia to Charleston, in particular, a segment of David and Leizer's journey. Because Russian border guards were likely to prevent young males from leaving the empire, the brothers, just twelve and seven years old, separated from Sonia and Rachel, and a hired smuggler led them into Germany where they were reunited with their mother and sister. Alan talks about Alexander's stores in Charleston, Georgetown, and Red Top, South Carolina. The interviewee's grandfather, Leizer, who assumed the name Leon, was in the first confirmation class at Brith Sholom, the Orthodox synagogue in Charleston. Leon became a pharmacist and opened apothecary shops at 442 and 492 King Street before earning his degree in medicine at the Medical College of South Carolina. Dr. Leon Banov, Sr., went to work for the city and county health departments and, after becoming director, oversaw the merger of the two entities. Alan discusses some of his grandfather's accomplishments as a public health director. Leon married Minnie Monash, whose father, Morris, owned Uncle Morris's Pawnshop in Charleston. Alan's father, Leon Banov, Jr., the eldest of three, became a doctor like his father and married Rita Landesman from Morris Plains, New Jersey. They raised Alan and his younger sister, Jane Banov Bergen, in Charleston. Alan describes his experiences at Charleston Day School and Gaud School for Boys. In 1967, after attending the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, he began law school at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. To get a draft deferment during the Vietnam War, he took education courses and signed up to teach school. He was assigned to Abram Simon Elementary School in D.C., where he taught sixth grade for three years while earning his law degree. Alan recalls his early career as a lawyer working first for the National Labor Relations Board, and then the law firm Donald M. Murtha & Associates. He originally intended to work in labor law, but switched to employment law. He explains why that trajectory changed and talks about his work as an employment lawyer and, more recently, a mediator. Alan married Marla Needel in 1969. They raised two daughters, Jessica and Rachel, before divorcing in 2001. His partner, Sandi Blau Cave, whom he met in 2002, was present during the interview. The transcript includes comments and corrections made by the interviewee during proofing. For related materials in Special Collections, Addlestone Library, see the Banov family papers, Mss 1025; the Edna Ginsberg Banov papers, Mss 1039; and interviews with Leon Banov, Jr., Mss. 1035-240; Abel Banov, Mss. 1035-060; and Edna Ginsberg Banov, Mss. 1035-045.
James Finnegan discusses his family history and his experiences as an Irish American in Charleston. James? great-great-great-grandfather traveled to South Carolina from County Meath around the late 1840?s. He discusses his deep family history in Charleston, as well as his involvement in the Irish community in Charleston and various events such as the Charleston St. Patrick?s Day parade.
Sarah Davis discusses her experiences as an Irish American growing up in the Northeast. She admits that it is difficult to pinpoint her experience with Irishness, as her family background is made up of several different backgrounds, but states that she connects most with the community and hospitality aspects of Irishness. She also offers some comments on perceptions of Irish American vs Irish identities, and on the changing political and social environment in Ireland today.
Megan Smith discusses her experiences as an Irish American in the South. Her paternal grandmother and grandfather immigrated to Holyoke, Massachusetts in the early 1880s. Her maternal grandparents are from Kerry, specifically the Annascaul area. Megan explains that her family in the Boston area owned a blacksmith company and provided services for much of the city. Her other grandparents lived in northern New York and owned a grocery story in Massena, New York. Her father was in the Navy and was responsible for their move to Charleston. Megan is a teacher, and is very involved in the Irish music scene in Charleston.
Melanie McMillan DeHaven (b.1966) was born in Newtownards, Northern Ireland, during the time of the Troubles. Melanie lived in Newtonards until she was eight years old and still has family there today. She discusses her experience with emigration at a young age, and what the Northern Irish identity means to her. Violence during the Troubles had a personal impact on her family, and was a driving force in their emigration to America during the 1960's and 1970's, which she discusses in depth.
Cormac O?Duffy (b. 1950) shares his experience of being born in America, but being raised in Dublin. Cormac?s father was a well-known singer in Ireland, which provided opportunities for Cormac such as meeting De Valera. Cormac O?Duffy was raised to love music and spends his time writing music. He discusses pursuing higher education degrees in Ireland and coming to America for teaching opportunities. He also discusses key differences in life in America and Ireland.
Roseanne Keeley Wray?s parents immigrated to America as a couple in 1926. Prior to her parents moving together to the Bronx. Roseanne shares the experience her mother had with coming to Oklahoma as a single woman. Roseanne offers a wealth of knowledge of both life in Ireland as well as the life of an Irish individual living in America. She shares memories of living in the Bronx as a child and housing young, single Irish immigrants in her family home. She shares stories that her parents would share with her siblings during childhood that told them stories of life in Ireland. To this day, Roseanne?s family still owns a family farm in Ireland, which Roseanne plans on leaving to her children and grandchildren.
Brendan Dagg (b. 1981) describes his experience as an Irish immigrant living in Charleston. Brendan grew up in Tullamore, County Offlay. His parents owned a local grocery store in the community, and he describes his upbringing as ?typical Irish,? and very positive. He emigrated to the United States in 2011, after marrying his wife, who is American, and immediately settled in Charleston. The transition to living in the U.S. was ?fairly challenging? at first but got easier once the decision was made to make things permanent. Brendan comments that the only thing he really misses about Ireland is the relationships with family and being able to be a part of certain milestones, which is why he and his wife bring their two children over to visit with extended family as often as they can. Brendan is very involved with sports and is a part of the hurling team here in Charleston.
Brett Wadford was born and raised in Columbia, South Carolina and has lived in Charleston for the past ten years. Brett?s family immigrated to America around 1787 and came from Antrim, Northern Ireland. Brad?s family has a history of Protestant beliefs and he has ancestors buried in a Presbyterian cemetery in the upstate. He has been involved with the Gaelic Athletic Association in order to connect with his Irish background.
Terry Cherry (pronouns: She/Her/Hers), white police officer, discusses the path of her life from birth in North Carolina, to education in California and elsewhere, to her service, in a number of capacities, as an out LGBTQ person in the Charleston, SC police force. She was born in Pinehurst, NC into a Methodist family. Her parents were both professors and very accepting and loving. Identifying as boy, she felt constricted by what society demanded of her, and went into therapy as a child to help with her anger at the situation. She attended UCLA, and when studying abroad in Australia, she reached a crisis when she nearly died from influenza. At her recovery, she decided to live as fully and honestly as possible. She came out to her parents, at first assuming she would be a disappointment and "imperfect," something her family totally rejected. At the Church of Christ-affiliated Pepperdine University, getting an MBA, she stressed LGBTQ issues and after graduating, she worked in the private sector before asking herself, "What can I do to make a memorable impact?" Turning to law enforcement, she went through the San Diego Police Academy training and in 2012 returned, hesitantly, to the Lowcountry where she has family. Expecting to find herself in a more conservative environment, she nevertheless lived openly in her daily life and work for the Charleston Police Force. She first served as a patrol officer on James and Johns Island, where she made an "investment" in learning the culture and heritage of the community, becoming a valued friend to many. She was officer of the year in 2017 and was among the first on the police force to participate in the Pride parade. Throughout the interview, Cherry speaks of the need to be oneself, to always expect the best of all situations, and others, and to ignore stereotypes, while working for social justice. She also notes that the Charleston Police Department, where she has worked as liaisons to the LGBTQ and Latinx communities, and now serves as the head of recruitment activities, has become a leader in the nation in diversity and inclusion, while not necessarily advertising the fact. She also gives a few brief vignettes of her professional life, referencing working the Emanuel AME massacre, talking a young lesbian out of suicide, and other incidents. She also discusses the city of Charleston's hate crimes ordinance.
Narrator_042 (Pronouns: He/Him/His), who requested the withholding of his name from the interview, discuses growing up in a small town in South Carolina as part of a financially "pretty well-off" blended family. At a young age, he began to notice that he was different. Realizing that he identified as gay, the narrator encountered resistance and hostility from family members. He recounts his experiences of starting to embrace his identity. In the process, he experienced "a lot of acceptance from friends," but at home, he realized "things were kind of shunned away or seen as just wrong," or even "demonic." He details his family's denial of his sexuality, their attempts to rid him of what they viewed as a "demon," and their attempts to maintain a strict home life structured around religion and scripture. This included monitoring his activity to prevent exposure to what they viewed as corrupting content on television and the internet. Despite such opposition, he periodically came out to his family, first at the age of thirteen, again at fifteen, and for a third time as a College of Charleston student. He describes in detail the reactions of the people closest to him, the actions taken by his family, and the challenges he continues to encounter with family members and how they have progressed over time. Note: At the request of the narrator, his name and other identifying details have been removed from the transcript, and the audio file of this oral history interview is not available. In lieu of a proper name, the speaker is referred to as Narrator_042, and other deletions made to the transcript are denoted in brackets.
In this interview Crystal Denise Helton (pronouns she, her, hers), a white program coordinator at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC), speaks of growing up in West Virginia, her awakening to her sexual identity, her experiences with friends, family and lovers, her marriage and divorce, her conversion to Judaism, and her reflections on herself and society. An only child growing up in with parents who were divorced, but still living together, Helton had a solitary youth, taking refuge in reading, offering escape from an alcoholic father, and a sometimes-inattentive mother. Closeted in high school, she nevertheless had a girlfriend who lived nearby and she avoided the censure of disapproving peers while attending a series of different churches and denominations. Helton first realized she was lesbian when she had a crush on a Sunday school teacher, and evolved a healthy attitude to her sexuality without the guidance or advice of others. Leaving home, near Princeton, West Virginia, Helton attended Marshall University and later lived in Lexington, KY where she switched from a PhD program in history to a masters program in library science, and where she was in a relationship with the woman who eventually became her wife. While she understood prejudice against gay people, Helton never felt much of it directed at her, commenting that her conversion to Judaism, completed at Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE), in Charleston, SC, has sparked more of a negative response from others than her sexuality. Her ex-wife joined her in the conversion experience and there was much resistance to this religious change in her spouse's family. The breakup and divorce (the couple had three varying marriage ceremonies, including a very positive experience at KKBE), was difficult for Helton, who did not instigate it. Calling her ex-wife the extrovert, and herself an introvert, Helton discusses her family of choice, including a long-time friend, and new ones made in a bocce league and among "murderinos", fans of the "My Favorite Murders" podcast. She speaks of learning patience in a romantic relationship, and discusses the greater ease with identity and gender fluidity she sees in people younger than she. She believes that being a member of the LGBTQ community has brought her insight into privilege, power, and prejudice in the larger society.
Vanity Reid Deterville (she, her, hers), discusses her upbringing in Charleston, SC, college years spent in Atlanta, GA, and the challenges she faced as accepting herself and being accepted in society as an African American trans woman. Growing up in an extended religious family, Deterville knew she was different from most of her friends and family as she heeded the warning of her grandmother to not share her concept of her gender identity with most other people. Attending Morehouse College in Atlanta opened up new ways of expressing gender identity and sexual orientation for her, but conflicts with her family over these and other issues led to an unstable period in her life, when she experienced homelessness or near homelessness, financial problems and battles with drugs and dependency. She describes the various stages of self-expression she went through at Morehouse and the issues presenting feminine triggered at the all-male school and how over the years, there have been family rifts and reconciliations. She addresses what it was like to come out in Charleston, mentions the role the LGBTQ youth organization We Are Family played in the process and speaks a bit about the bar scene, articulating a stratification she noticed along class and racial lines._Deterville also speaks about local transgender issues, the segregated nature of LGBTQ life, and how many of her friends are more eager to attend Black Gay Pride events out of town rather than local gay pride events. She also notes the irony that people in the white community seem more empathetic on, and attuned to, transgender issues, than many in the people of color community. Yet white gay men tend to want to label and define her only as a drag performer and not accept her for her true status. She refers to a play "Sugar in the Grits" she wrote and performed for the local MOJA festival, a rare event that linked Gullah-Geechee heritage and LGBTQ life._In response to the question of what being LGBTQ has meant to her, she answers that it has led to "trailblazing," being constantly open to questioning normalcy, learning to love oneself, despite what one is taught, and being able to look at life in an a more nuanced and even more spiritual manner._
Robert Arrington (pronouns: He/Him/His), Black reverend of the Unity Fellowship Church, the only affirming church for LGBTQ people of color in the Charleston, SC area, discusses his personal life, his spiritual growth, and troubles and issues with his church and the larger Charleston, SC community. A native of Harlem, NY, Arrington grew up in an abusive household and due to a misdiagnosis, was sent to schools for the mentally handicapped. "My childhood was just about survival," he notes. Being different, he was the subject of contempt by others and sought solace in religion and the church, where he was told he was gifted. After being sent to a rigorous all male Catholic School, and his father's murder in 1974, Arrington and his family moved to a rural area near Durham, NC, where he graduated high school. In college, he married a woman "to make everybody happy," but that did not work out, and, moving to Fayetteville, NC, he became involved in a party scene, contracted HIV and nearly died. Back in Durham, facing family issues, Arrington rejoined the church, started an AIDS ministry, and could not be ordained as a minister in the Missionary Baptist Church as a gay man but only as "a non-practicing homosexual." To preserve his integrity, he joined the Unity Fellowship Church movement, and had a congregation in Charlotte, NC. Arrington then gives a brief history of the denomination, noting how he moved to Rochester, NY before coming to Charleston in 2010 and setting up a Pentecostal type church service here. Arrington describes the growth and decline of his congregation, mentions an ex-husband, and speaks of the prejudice he has felt in Charleston directed against him as an African American, and specifically against him as a reverend in and out LGBTQ church. While loving the area, he comments on the resistance of "gatekeepers" to change, feeling that racism is "in the air." He comments favorably on many working to improve the LGBTQ and African American communities, but concludes that many with power and privilege are halting progress.
Andrew Becknell, sometimes known as Andrezia (pronouns: they/them, but also she/her) describes growing up in the Charleston area as a bigender or two-spirit person. They grew up in a conservative Catholic family, moving from West of the Ashley to Mount Pleasant. Becknell's parents divorced when they were young, and they became close to their mother, and has only recently begun to renew ties with their father. Becknell has Tourette's syndrome, misdiagnosed early on as Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), leading to bad reactions to drugs and an unhappy year at Blessed Sacrament School. Later attending Wando High School, Becknell, who always sensed they were different, began experimenting with high heels and other forms of feminine attire, eliciting a range of both negative and positive reaction, the former from his family and the latter from a church youth group leader. Attending Trident Technical College, Becknell served as Vice President of Gay/Straight Alliance, which they helped found and later had both positive and negative experiences in a different work environments. Now working as a car-detailer, a job much enjoyed, Becknell discusses being out, "blending in," and also moving into "survival mode." Becknell mentions attending some Charleston Area Transgender Support (CATS) meetings, notes being more attracted to women, describes the impact of certain albums and musicians on them, declares that "The binary must die," and speaks of their attraction to Norse Polytheism. They also muse on the rigidity of the older generation, both straight and gay, in viewing of sex and gender roles, mentioning a lesbian "takeover" of the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), making the organization more accepting. Becknell also discusses work with a number of therapists, and how a gender therapist has been most helpful.
Cator Sparks (pronouns: he/him), white board president of LGBTQ youth organization We Are Family, discusses his life as a gay man and his volunteer and professional work. He describes growing up in a liberal family in Atlanta, Georgia, and his difficulties and successes in high school. Sparks attended the College of Charleston in the early 1990s and speaks of coming out in Charleston into an exciting and accepting environment, then detailing his experiences in the rave scene. Along with rave venues, he describes gay bars including Treehouse, A.C.'s, and The Arcade. He discusses his volunteer work with neighborhood associations in the Cannonborough-Elliotborough neighborhood in Charleston and Harlem in New York City. Sparks performed in drag in Atlanta as Spectra Gramm, one of his performances during the Olympics being televised in France, where he soon went to study abroad. Back in Atlanta, he enrolled in American College, finishing his degree in fashion marketing in London. It was there he discovered dandyism, and he speaks of his conversion to it from rave fashion, defining what dandyism means to him, the effect it had on his life, and how it can educate others. He emphasizes how he values working with LGBTQ youth and his experiences volunteering with the Harvey Milk High School in New York City and with We Are Family in Charleston. Sparks describes the impact the 2016 Presidential election had on him, prompting his social action and recaps his professional life, including a description of working in Jeffrey, a high-end New York shoe store started by Jeffrey Kalinksy of Charleston, his freelance writing and his future plans of becoming a life coach. Photograph credited to Carolina Knopf.
David Cosgrove?s parents both came to America in 1964 and met in Elizabeth, New Jersey. David's parents are from rural areas in County Galway and County Mayo. Davd's father lived in Ireland until he was twenty two years old, when he moved to London with his brother, and David's mother came to America straight from Ireland at the age of nineteen. He has been to Ireland several times, as his parents regularly took him and his four brothers over to their hometowns during his childhood. David takes care to discuss similarities and differences between life and politics in Ireland and Charleston.
Cheryl Daniels was born in Jersey City, New Jersey. Both of Cheryl?s parents were also born in Jersey City and their parents immigrated from Galway and Cork. Cheryl?s grandparents initially immigrated to America for better job opportunities. She discusses their journey to Americanize themselves upon entering the country by changing their names. She discusses the influence of Catholicism on her family and her public school education experience in America. Cheryl has lived in New Jersey, Colorado, and South Carolina.
Jeanne Chirdon discusses her experience with Irish heritage and the journey of her family?s immigration from Ireland. After her great great grandparents immigrated from Ireland, they settled in Pennsylvania. Some of her family traveled through the port in Cork, Ireland and most of her family immigrated through Ellis Island, New York. One of seven siblings, Jeanne grew up Roman Catholic and discusses Catholic traditions and how they have influenced her life. Jeanne shares the role of Irish music in her life, which developed from her relationship with "the Toms" at the age of 16. Music, for Jeanne, influenced her sense of community and comfort in Irish culture. After living in Cork, Ireland from 2003-2006, Jeanne moved to Asheville for graduate school, and later moved to Charleston with her husband. She plays the banjo, and is very involved in the Irish music scene in Charleston.
Vivian Cleary, 64, was born in Dublin, Ireland. He shares stories about life in the Northside of Dublin. Vivian lived in Dublin until he was three years old when his parents moved to Birmingham, England, where he lived until the age of 17. Vivian shares experiences of family holidays in Ireland. Vivian came to Charleston twenty years ago and discusses how different life is in America. He discusses political issues with America during this time along with the process for applying for permanent residency. Vivian is also able to shed light on historical events in Ireland, such as experiences with the IRA, and separation of Northern Ireland and the Republic.
As part of 2019 Pride Week on the College of Charleston campus, local television journalist Megan Rivers moderates and interviews four speakers at an "LGBTQ+ Justice: The Road Ahead Panel Discussion" sponsored by the Charleston American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Ryan White Wellness Center. The panelists introduce themselves sequentially and then, slightly out of order, each one answers one question posed by Rivers. Cora Webb (pronouns: she/her/they/them), Program Director of We Are Family, addresses issues facing LGBTQ+ youth such as bullying; the failure of schools to stop it; bathroom access for trans students; and the state's "No Promo Homo" law prohibiting discussion of queer identifies except in a negative light. Michael Luciano (pronouns: he/him) speaks on HIV and AIDS as a Peer Treatment Educator at Palmetto Community Care, a member of the National AIDS Treatment Advocacy Project, the Southern AIDS Coalition, the Southern AIDS Strategy Coalition, the Tri-County Sexual Health Awareness Prevention and Education Initiative (SHAPE Tri-County), and other councils and committees. He mentions living with HIV for decades and focuses on SC state laws that target, criminalize. and stigmatize people living with HIV. Jerry Evans (pronouns: he/him), introducing himself as gay lawyer passionate about First Amendment issues, then discusses "religious refusal" and court cases pitting religious objections on certain topics against equal protection under the law for LGBTQ+ and other people. The last to be introduced, Kenya Cummings (pronouns: she/her/they/them), the Opportunities Organizer for Carolina Youth Action Project, speaks of her organization that serves and educates for girls, trans youth and gender non-conforming youth. She advocates for comprehensive sex education and discusses the state's over reliance on School Resource Officers (SROs), law enforcement officers who apply police tactics instead of educational approaches in difficult situations in schools, creating more problems than they solve.
George Thomas Lamme (Pronouns: He/Him/His), discusses his early years in Nebraska, moving to New York City and Chicago, and then settling in Charleston, SC where he became involved in many LGBTQ related projects and businesses. Growing up gay and Catholic in Beemer, Nebraska, Lamme always knew he was different; engaging in cowboy and Indian games, he always played Big Ruby, "a bar girl". Attending a Lutheran college, he intended to be a priest, but eventually became a teacher in a Catholic school in his hometown instead. Pursuing some legal action against the school, he was threatened with being outed by the administration if he did not quit; it was recommended he move to New York City. There, he pursued his interest in theatre, working with H.M. Koutoukas and La Mama's avant gard theatre, among other things. Moving to Chicago, where he had worked in the box office of the Academy Festival Theatre, he met David Cardwell and Jeff Miller, who moved to Charleston, SC. In 1978, Lamme came to visit and never left. He was instrumental in finding backers for their bar Les Jardins, soon working there, writing, staging, and directing various musical spoofs and tributes. He also was befriended by Richard (Dick) Robison, whose Garden and Gun Club Lamme later joined as staff. He describes the small "quiet? beautiful" town Charleston was, its social structure and its class of closeted gay men. "Everybody knew that there were important people in the city? who had boyfriends," he notes. "But Charleston was such a polite city, you don't bring up that subject because? [t]hat person is a good person?." As a bartender and a door man, he was involved with selecting or rejecting those applying for membership, and got to know drag queens, society women, bar owners, other bars and bar patrons, many of which he describes. He also became active in the founding and running of Helping Hands dedicated to raising awareness of HIV and AIDS and raising funds for people with AIDS. He reflects on some of the earlier aspects of gay life in the city, speaks of attending local and national LGBTQ parades, describes the devastation of Hurricane Hugo, his work in hotel banqueting, as a guide at the Calhoun (now Williams) Mansion, and in the tourism office of the City of Charleston. He ends by affirming how satisfying it is to see LGBTQ people out in the community, describing how children and others realize he is gay, and how he loves "the fact that not a single person makes any trouble for anyone walking hand in hand in Charleston right now."
Jensen Cowan (pronouns: They/Them) was born July 4, 1997 in Brandon, Florida, and discusses growing up in Socastee, adjacent to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, in an emotionally and verbally abusive home. They discuss chosen family and close friends, their relationship with their mother and four sisters in a blended family and what it meant to leave home to start a new life at the College of Charleston, with mentions of being in the Bonner Leadership Program there. Cowan describes the struggles of separating from their family financially and finding a method to pay for school. Working with We Are Family and attending functions of Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Cowan felt “discrepancies in maturities” in various groups, eventually finding supportive friends and neighbors to help with personal issues and the need for food. Cowan discusses identifying as queer, nonbinary, and trans, mentions a fundraiser they started to help pay for surgery and speaks of their capstone project to map all the gender-neutral bathrooms on the College of Charleston campus. Cowan notes a lack of response from College administrators on this and other LGBTQ oriented issues, describes the inconveniences and disruptions caused to their college studies by this lack of facilities and speaks to the insensitivity of some faculty and friends in using offensive vocabularies and inappropriate pronouns. Cowan and the interviewer discuss the lack of diversity within Charleston Pride, and the larger LGBTQ movement as a whole, while praising classes and faculty, such as Dr. Kristi Bryan, within the College’s Women’s & Gender Studies program and the positive effect it has had on them and others. The interview closes with a discussion of Cowan’s plans for the future after graduating in May 2019, having earlier mentioned a disinclination to return to working as an educator/camp counselor at Kids On Point (formerly Chucktown Squash), due to the fact that the students there would have known them under a different name.
Samuel Cooper (pronouns: He/His) discusses his upbringing, life history and beliefs, focusing often on the topic of being a gay African American man of faith. When his father, minister of Centenary Methodist Church, Charleston, SC, joined the military to become a chaplain, Cooper and his family began a peripatetic life that took them to various bases in this country and in Germany. Knowing early he was gay, seeing his homosexuality as a "gift," Cooper nevertheless suppressed it, eventually coming out to his family who accepted him, partially, he believes, due to his father having had counseled many LGBTQ men and women in the military. He notes both the benefits and liabilities of being Black and of being gay and describes an episode of crisis at Clemson University. A homophobic comment by a member of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes prompted him to leave that group, come out, join, and become an officer of Clemson's LGBTQ organization, the Lambda Society. He faced near dismissal from Mercer University's Walter F. George School of Law for being an advocate of LGBTQ visibility, and later in the interview he discusses the impacts racial prejudice, both Black and white, and homophobia, can have on clients he represents as a personal injury attorney. In his return to South Carolina working briefly in the Fourth Circuit Solicitor's office, he traveled the state; Cooper, throughout the interview, gives many details of various bars in Columbia, Myrtle Beach and Charleston, describing their appearance and layout and the groups attending them. Once relocated permanently to Charleston, SC, he attended the Metropolitan Community Church and its off shoot, Open Door. He discusses his relationship with his husband, Stavely Edgar, recounts some failed homophobic attacks against him, and notes little or no pushback against Edgar and himself as an interracial couple. He speaks of his religious faith, the Black church, his opinion of historically black colleges possibly limiting experiences for their students, and the threats menacing minorities and democracy due to the presidency of Donald J. Trump.
Melissa Moore (pronouns: They/Them) discusses their personal life and the various roles they played in numerous social causes and organizations, many being LGBTQ related. Born in Mt. Pleasant, SC, they identified as male, and, denied that self-expression, Moore details the impact it had on their school years and the numbing escape made possible by drugs and alcohol. In passing Moore also describes a run-in with religious demands at Vacation Bible School, and being exposed to, and fascinated by, female impersonators at an early age. At the College of Charleston, Moore joined such groups as the Gay and Lesbian Alliance, and the Women’s Forum, engaging intellectually and socially with new people and ideas. Coming to see that societal norms aid in controlling conformity and denying diversity, Moore was strongly affected by a billboard supporting LGBTQ rights put up by the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA). That prompted them to begin volunteering, and eventually working, for AFFA under the direction of Warren Redman-Gress. Moore later went on to work with Linda Ketner and SC Equality to attempt to defeat the movement within the state of South Carolina to define marriage as between a man and a woman. That was unsuccessful. In the process, Moore came into contact with other organizations such as Southerners on New Ground and worked with activists including Mandy Carter and others, creating opportunities to learn grass root organizing skills and to work with groups like Africa House in Orangeburg, SC. Moore notes the reluctance or refusal of national and other LGBTQ organizations to fund work in the South, assuming it “unwinnable” and also speaks to the lack of funding for social service agencies in lieu of political ones. Working with the Abortion Access Project, later called Provide, gave Moore further experience and they eventually became director of We Are Family, an organization in Charleston for LGBTQ youth. Moore details how under their management and planning the organization and its programs grew. They describe the plan to fund the organization through the creation of a thrift store and Moore notes how three LGBTQ organizations in town, Charleston Pride, AFFA and We Are Family recently moved to the same building in North Charleston. After touching on subjects like transphobia, the new management of We Are Family, and naming many people in the field they admire, Moore finishes the interview describing their new position with the city of Mount Pleasant, working on sustainable and equitable city planning.
Jamie Nadeau (pronouns: She/Her/Hers) describes her journey to self-realization as a lesbian trans woman and a successful business owner of a hand-press greeting card printing company in Charleston, South Carolina. Born in Nashville, Tennessee into a religious Church of Christ family, Nadeau attended religious schools. Her father, a member of the Potawatomi Nation, and her mother divorced when she was young, and she speaks of trying to reclaim and learn more about her native American heritage. Born intersex, Nadeau retains early childhood hospital memories and speaks of her conservative upbringing where LGBTQ people were seen as “cultural oddities” and trans people were thought “horrific monsters.” Trying to imagine herself as a lesbian in that conservative environment “broke my brain,” and she had to go through the “impostor syndrome” before claiming and becoming comfortable as her true self. Embracing technology and computers long before they were commonplace, she was a young hacker and researched gender identities in cyberspace when others perhaps were still using libraries. She attended Middle Tennessee State University for a year, where and when she first began to explore her identity; she then studied at, and received her degree from, the Savannah College of Art and Design. After her mother’s death, Nadeau vowed she would never wear men’s clothes again and began seeing a gender therapist. She quickly began sharing her status with friends, family and her wife Allison, meeting wholehearted support from the latter, and a variety of responses from others. Nadeau speaks to the various levels of acceptance from the religious community, and from her biological and chosen families. She speaks at length of her experiences in coming out, noting how “soul crushing” being “misgendered” in public can be, and praises the Charleston trans women’s community for being so accepting and supportive, affirming the importance of support groups and loyal friends. Nadeau also describes how she and her wife, Allison, friends since childhood, followed their fascination with printing and design and left their professions to become proprietors of their greeting card company, Ink Meets Paper. There is a brief discussion focusing on Charleston being a safer space for LGBTQ people than other areas of the Deep South, and in response to the interviewer, Nadeau suggest that LGBTQ people should not necessarily focus on otherness, but see the world as she does, a place of countless, diverse narratives, where people are to be encouraged for finding their own way and lauded for their strength in “occupying space” in a world of proscriptions and possiblities.
Emily Anne Boyter (pronouns: She/Hers) discusses her life as the daughter of missionaries, her religious upbringing and experiences with religion, coming out as a lesbian, reconciling “Christianity and queerness,” and many positive new experiences opening to her. She describes being born in Greenville, South Carolina, and being raised in Mexico City where her parents worked as Evangelical Christian missionaries, spending brief periods in the states. She left Mexico and attended college at, and graduated from, Liberty University, a private evangelical Christian university in Lynchburg, Virginia. There, the strongly insular quality she experienced in the missionary world, continued, and many felt a great loyalty to the school and its President, Jerry Falwell, Jr. Identifying as straight during her time there, she nevertheless was aware of a “strong culture of homophobia at Liberty,” where close friendships could lead to questions about one’s sexuality and where being gay could lead to expulsion. In graduate school at Clemson University, Boyter began to meet, and form friendships with LGBTQ people, feeling on “friendly ground” for the first time in her life, among people who were unbothered by another’s sexual orientation or identity. Being in this open and accepting environment, Boyter began to come to terms with being “queer,” a word she embraces for its inclusiveness. Coming out in her religious community at Clemson was not a positive experience, so she eventually left her church. In the interview, she wonders if others would see her as a “Christian” at all, she having now found comfort in a feminine spirituality versus the strong paternalistic nature of many churches and religions. She recalls how many men in her religious milieu would weigh her (and other women’s) characteristics and traits, to determine if they would make good wives of ministers. After coming out to her family and on social media, finding support from some, but dismay and rejection from others, including a man who had been viewing her as a possible wife, Boyter is now in a committed relationship with another woman and they are considering marriage. Despite the difficulties faced by LGBTQ people in the upstate region where they live, Boyter, a resident of Easley, and her girlfriend feel rooted in the area, yet she expresses some misgivings at the possibility of raising children there. Her work at the Tri-County Technical College is rewarding; being “out,” she can serve as a mentor and a role model for LGBTQ students and others.
Chase Glenn (pronouns: He/Him/His), white executive director of the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), speaks about himself and his family, his life impacted by a growing awareness of the LGBTQ community and its issues, his transition, and his professional development that took him from church work to his current position. Growing up in Mt. Vernon, IL, an insular, small and rural community into a loving and giving Southern Baptist family, Glenn was "pretty naive to the world growing up." While he "felt like the other," he "didn't have the words or the real understanding" of his identity. In a world where "heterosexual sex was bad, then gay sex was not just not on the table at all," he did not have a frame of reference or knowledge about gay or trans people. Not until attending Belmont University in Nashville, TN did Glenn know gay people and there it was a shock to be told that women could never be ministers in the Southern Baptist denomination, despite Glenn's life-long "call" to the ministry. Never "feeling fully a girl," Glenn began a relationship with another woman, that being the "path of least resistance" and worked in churches. When outed as a lesbian at work in a church in Florida, Glenn was given the option to stop living that way or be fired. That prompted a 2006 move to Charleston, SC, where Glenn maintained a relationship with a lesbian, was married, came out successfully to his family, and worked for the Mt. Pleasant Presbyterian Church. After seven years he began to work for Blackbaud, and his awareness grew as to his true identity. His relationship ended; he discusses some of the lesbian and other bars in Charleston he attended, as he openly pursued his transition, sharing it online and on his dating profiles. He met a woman whom he married and now the couple has a son through invitro fertilization. Glenn discusses his fears of being an appropriate father and recalls his growing involvement in the LGBTQ community, doing the design and layout for the first Pride programs, serving on its board, that of AFFA, and working for SC Equality and the Trans Action Committee. Having gotten a master's degree in counseling and experiencing again the call to advocate for, and work with, people, Glenn, after discussions with his wife, left the safety of his corporate job to become the director of the non-profit AFFA. He describes the directions in which he took the organization, details the complexities of the community needs assessment survey AFFA and its partners undertook, discusses some of the results, talks about how race and racism affect the community and how society affords him "white male straight privilege" because of his appearance.
TZiPi Radondsky (pronouns: She/Her) speaks of her life and its many changes, her search for spiritual enlightenment and her work for a better world. Born into an "ortho-conservative" Jewish family in Boston, she grew up committed to Judaism, but cut herself off from it as a young woman. She attended college, got pregnant, married, and had two daughters. Her husband, a Catholic who converted to Judaism, joined her father in the women's sportswear business. When unionization prompted the transfer of the business to South Carolina, the family moved to Aiken, SC. She divorced, and began a friendship with a woman in Aiken, soon realizing it was love. She and her new partner were part of a closeted group of women in the area, and Radonsky felt frustrated that no one aided her in her pursuit to understand her evolving self. She attended a gay bar in Augusta, GA, began taking courses and was bat mitzvahed as an adult in Aiken. She "wasn't butch enough to be considered lesbian" and differed from most of her friends in having had children. Moving to Gainesville, FL, was "just like I walked into heaven," she notes. It was a liberating experience as she received a master's degree in occupational therapy, ran a women's bookstore and center, and lived in a women's only community. She then moved to Charleston, SC to work from 1984 to 1987 at the Medical University of South Carolina, where again, she found the community closeted. In Greensboro, NC, where she went to complete her PhD, she found a much more open community, wrote her dissertation on lesbians coming out, became a counselor, and began to reconnect with Judaism as she explored other spiritual avenues. A retreat in Taos, NM, prompted her to travel the world through the Servas International Program. As an out lesbian, she had positive, negative and neutral experiences. Mentioning Wicca, Gaia, and Native American religious traditions, Radonsky was ordained as a Rabbi in the Renewal Judaism movement by Mordechai Gafni, a charismatic leader who later lost his position due to claims of sexual misconduct. To take care of her aging parents, Radonsky moved to West Palm Beach, FL, despite her recovered memory of sexual abuse by her father. There she became friends with the early lesbian rights activists Connie Kurtz and Ruthie Berman. After her parents' death, Radonsky relocated to Beaufort, SC, to be near one of her daughters. She speaks of the conservative nature of the area, her work with the Unitarian Universalist Church, the lack of acceptance of her rabbinical degree by the Jewish community and her outspoken support of many causes and issues. She mentions marching with a daughter in Columbia, SC (at the first Pride March), and with her other daughter in Greensboro, NC; her two long-term relationships; and events she helped organize, including a Beaufort gathering to mark the shooting at the Pulse Nightclub and the first Pride March held in Bluffton, SC. She closes by noting that the LGBTQ community has much to offer society at large, and she will continue dedicating her life to total inclusivity.????
DeLesslin George-Warren (pronouns: He/Him/They/Theirs) speaks of his life as a queer member of the Catawba Indian Nation and his work for social justice, through both direct action and performance art. The son of a white father, who worked in health care and later became a private consultant, and a Catawba mother, an attorney working with the tribe for federal recognition, he was called "Roo" from childhood on. Growing up in Rock Hill, SC, he felt a "dual consciousness" attending a conservative Christian school while being part of a very liberal family in which he was expected to find his own truths. He started volunteering at the cultural center on the Reservation in high school, but did not reclaim his Catawba heritage or come out as a gay man until he attended college, eventually realizing that? "liberation as a queer person is tied to the liberation of my community." At Vanderbilt University, he pursued musical studies and also worked to establish gender-neutral bathrooms on campus. From 2014 to 2017, in AmeriCorps, he lived in Washington, DC. In museums there, as a guide and cultural interpreter, he often took patrons by surprise, sometimes making them angry, when he gave more nuanced and truthful version of American history as it involved indigenous people; being pale and blue-eyed, he defies cultural stereotypes. With a grant from Running Strong for American Indian Youth, he returned to the Catawba Reservation in 2017 and became involved in projects reviving the Catawba language and focusing on food sustainability. In the interview, George-Warren speaks of being accepted in the Catawba community as a gay man, despite its affiliation with the? Church of the Latter Day Saints; describes the "briar patch" nature of Catawba family relationships; notes the historical matriarchy of the tribe; sums up the impact of the loss of federal tribal recognition and then regaining it; mentions a "strain of queerness" in Catawba history; and discusses his identity. He recalls a PRIDE march in Washington, DC, wherein he and others protested the sponsorship of corporations, some involved in actions on Indian lands; and expresses gratitude for being born queer, beyond the norm, to free himself from society's expectations. It's "liberating to be Catawba and also be queer," he believes. He perceives a need for solidarity in the LGBTQ community and notes, "I've seen more anti-Native sentiment in LGBT spaces than I have seen explicit anti-LGBT sentiment in my Catawba community."??
Dick (Richard) Latham (pronouns: He/Him) describes his childhood in Raleigh, North Carolina realizing he was gay and growing up in an accepting family. They moved to the more conservative Rock Hill, South Carolina when he was a teen. Latham attended the College of Charleston, where he was fully out, and a member of the Alpha Phi Omega Fraternity, as was a man he dated. He attended gay bars in downtown Charleston including Les Jardins, the Garden & Gun Club, and Streetcar, later Dudley’s, and he describes the class stratification within the gay community, elites attending the Battery Club, and there being a pecking order with drag queens and “redneck” cruisers at the bottom. Enrolling in a graduate program in early childhood education, Latham felt the need to be less open about his sexual orientation, due to working with children; he recalls a closeted gay principal refusing to hire him because he was a male. After graduation, he continued to work in early childhood education at the College of Charleston and later Trident Technical College. Latham describes a long-term relationship that ended in the death of his partner, the impact it had on his professional and personal life when the local press identified him as a teacher at the College of Charleston, and how the hospital staff would not at first communicate with him since he was not considered family. He discusses facing the issue of ageism in the LGBTQ community. He was present at the founding of the Lowcountry Gay & Lesbian Alliance (LGLA), and describes its struggles, its activities and his presidency in the early 2000s, recalling the debate within the group to be “out” or not and how highway signs crediting the LGBTQ group for picking up litter were constantly vandalized. Latham also worked with We Are Family, and compares the mission of LGLA with that of the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA). An Episcopalian, he discusses reconciling his faith with his sexuality, and homophobia at the Cathedral Church of St. Luke and St. Paul, compared to the openness of St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church. Latham also responds to questions on the AIDS crisis in Charleston, noting the silence around it, prejudice against people with HIV, the work of Joe Hall and AIDS service agencies and programs such as Dining with Friends, which made AIDS work acceptable since it centered on social events. He ends with his thoughts on the current LGBTQ issues, and describes his creation of Safe Space trainings at Trident Technical College. In reply to some critical reaction, he notes how he was treated as a gay college student, showing the need for such programs today.
Steven Willard (pronouns: He/Him), a white yoga and meditation teacher in Charleston, SC, speaks about his life and changes seen in society and in the LGBTQ community over the years. With a father in Vietnam when he was born, Willard and his family moved to North Charleston, SC when he was six. It was "small town, USA," and Willard attended church and public schools, where, knowing he was different, he found a friend who was also gay. As a teen, he worked in a record store in a mall and found comfort in seeing people he could identify as LGBTQ even as he sought further "validation" in movies, books and on television. He describes how he and his friend, with false IDs, attended bars such as the Garden and Gun Club and the Arcade, and the impact it had on them. While distanced from his father, he had a fairly good relationship with his mother; yet being discovered as gay as he finished high school at eighteen in 1986, led to his removal from his home. He moved to New York City where he felt safe for the first time. Mentored by an older gay man, he worked in a variety of jobs. Growing up in SC, he had had no access to positive information about gay life or AIDS prevention, and throughout the interview, Willard marvels at his luck at surviving the death and devastation around him. He returned to Charleston in 1993, left periodically, but came back. He found it necessary to be closeted working for the Department of Motor Vehicles, and coming out, experienced prejudice and harassment. He stood up to this, however, noting, "I might have been a fag, but I wasn't a punk." An interest in yoga lead him to teaching, and in the 1990s and afterwards, he witnessed a change in the city triggered by the empowerment from surviving AIDS. He noticed more gender fluidity in younger people and in himself in such places as the Treehouse bar. He gives a vivid description of the celebrations that occurred in Charleston when marriage equality was achieved, unfortunately, very close to the time that the massacre at Emanuel AME Church occurred. Throughout, he speaks of the loss of honesty, and face-to-face communication that social dating apps have brought about and then mentions the loss of LGBTQ spaces in the city, specifically describing Dudley's as a gathering spot for bridal parties. He regrets the lack of political involvement on social issues, such as abortion, among younger people, yet also believes that being LGBTQ "just living our lives is a form of activism." In reply to how being LGBTQ has influenced his life, Willard responds that, if not challenged as a minority and faced with prejudice, he could have become complacent. "Like women, people of color, LGBT, we all have to realize that we ?re in those cross hairs of these straight white Christian dudes, and we all have to fight together."
Barbara Nicodemus (pronouns: She/Hers), white retired school teacher, discusses her life, which she describes as "pretty boring," "pretty golden," and one lived under a "miracle cloud." Growing up in a close-knit, loving and accepting Catholic family in Indianapolis, IN, she accompanied her parents to marches and rallies in Chicago as a youngster. She attended Catholic schools (where she had to get permission to take physics instead of home economics), Ball State University, and Purdue, majoring in science education and later in biochemistry, when it was unusual for women to do so. Involved with another woman academician, she helped organize and run a women's center, "really a lesbian" center, and never encountered any sort of pushback there for her views or actions. She gave up working at Eli Lilly and Company, not agreeing with their philosophy, and moved with partner to various other universities, eventually moving to Clemson, SC. Starting a new career, Nicodemus became a high school teacher and had her education loans forgiven by teaching in the rural area of Walhalla, South Carolina. There, she was a "breath of fresh air," being out, when so many people were not. She continued to live under that "miracle cloud" of never facing any prejudice against her for being a lesbian, which she attributes to her personally being "passable" in her looks, and due to the Southern pattern of behavior of not being confrontational. After a year-and-a-half of attempts at artificial insemination, she gave birth to twin girls, whom she and her partner raised. While their relationship ended, the women remained close both emotionally and geographically. Nicodemus started and ran the "Upstate Women's Community" for lesbians for about ten years, putting on events to raise funds to help publish a newsletter. Teaching school, she was a role model for some students and staff and she expressed her disapproval once when an older friend dated a student. Retiring, she moved to Charleston with her wife, where she is involved with the Charleston Social Club, has joined book clubs (one specifically for lesbians), and volunteers to work with senior dementia patients. In speaking on LGBTQ topics, she notes her belief that gay men, like her brother, who also has children, might face more discrimination that gay women do; she describes her long-standing attendance at a women's festival, ponders its stand as terfs, trans-exclusionary radical feminists, not opening the festival to trans women, and questions her own thoughts on the topic. Being LGBTQ has just made her human, she feels, earlier noting that LGBTQ people often work harder than their straight peers, just to prove their worth. She ends the interview suggesting that while she has lived a life "in neutral," she has occasionally, when needed, shifted into "drive."
Harlan Greene, one of four children of Regina and Sam Greene, talks about growing up in Charleston, South Carolina, with a focus on the effects his parents’ experiences as Holocaust survivors had on him and his siblings. Regina and Sam married in their native Poland in June 1939 and, sometime after the Nazis invaded Poland, were picked up by Russian invaders and taken to Siberian work camps. In 1943 the Greenes joined thousands of Jewish refugees in Uzbekistan to wait out the war. They immigrated in 1948 to Charleston, where Regina had relatives. Harlan recalls that his parents’ wartime accounts were “very contradictory,†and he speculates as to the reasons. At his prompting, his mother began telling him stories in bits and pieces when he was a young teen. Regina was not for memorializing just one holocaust or telling her story publicly, whereas, later in life, Sam became involved in Holocaust organizations and recorded his life story. Harlan describes his parents’ marriage, their home life while he was growing up, and his childhood, which he calls “claustrophobic.†He believes that his parents’ stories are part of his and his siblings’ stories—"their trajectory is my trajectoryâ€â€”and that certain familial traits have filtered down to his nieces in the next generation. Harlan notes that he has a “run-away work ethic. I can see it in many of my siblings. If we’re enjoying ourselves, we kind of feel guilty.†He comments briefly on Charleston society’s social strictures and how he has embraced living outside its confines, being gay and Jewish. “Growing up in Charleston, you weren’t supposed to be Jewish. You weren’t supposed to be gay. Those were social strikes against you. . . I like whatever makes me different.†This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.†Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Miriam Brotman Gordin was born in Charleston, South Carolina, in 1933, the only child of immigrants Charlotte Saltz (Galicia, Austria-Hungary) and Ralph Brotman (Polish Russia). Miriam and her daughter Rachel Barnett, who is an interviewer, share their family history. Miriam describes growing up in Charleston where Charlotte and Ralph owned a dry goods store on King Street near Read Brothers, at the corner of Spring. Ralph was in poor health much of the time, so Charlotte was the family's primary breadwinner. Ralph died when Miriam was twelve. The interviewee recalls spending Sundays at wholesalers' stores on Meeting Street while her mother negotiated with the owners, and she remembers other merchants and families they knew along King Street. Miriam tells a number of stories that offer a glimpse of daily life for Jewish merchants in uptown Charleston in the 1930s-'50s. The Brotmans were members of Beth Israel, one of two Orthodox synagogues, where Miriam was confirmed with two other girls when she was about fifteen. Miriam notes that "Mama was a casual Orthodox. She did what she could. She would have moments of being Orthodox, really religious, and then she would back away." Miriam graduated from the College of Charleston in 1955 and, that same year, married David Gordin, who grew up in Summerton, South Carolina, a small farming community about eighty miles north of Charleston. David had earned his pharmacy degree and returned to his hometown and opened a drugstore. His father, Morris Gordin, ran a general store there. Miriam and David raised their four children, Rachel, Debbie, Danny, and Stephen, in Summerton, and the family attended Temple Sinai in Sumter. Miriam and Rachel describe a "split" in the Sumter congregation, which they remember as "very Reform." Many members did not want to observe such practices as wearing yarmulkes or praying in Hebrew, nor did they want others to do so. Miriam reports that Summerton, home of Briggs v. Elliott, had a Citizens' Council, "which was very intimidating." The Gordins kept their children in the public schools until 1970, when full integration was enforced. Rachel and Miriam discuss the decision to enroll Rachel and her siblings in private school. Miriam notes that David felt they didn't have a choice. "He didn't want his children to be an experiment in a public school." Rachel argues that the white flight to the private academies was "pure racism," but not in her parents' case. "Daddy was really caught in a conundrum. You couldn't be the only four white kids. It was bad enough being the only four Jewish kids." Other topics covered in this interview include Debbie's illness and death at age thirty; funeral and burial customs; Jewish-gentile relations in Summerton; and the importance of Jewish identity.
Sunshine Goodman (pronouns: She/Her/Hers) discusses life experiences, spirituality, work in the beauty industry, her philosophy and attitude to life and her assumption of the role as a “self-proclaimed ambassador of authenticity.” Growing up in Roanoke, VA, Goodman spent time as a youth with her mother’s family in Charleston, SC. Bullied in school for appearing feminine and steered away from coming out in a small conservative town, Goodman left after high school to live with an aunt in Charleston. First working in women’s fashion stores, Goodman then became an apprentice with a stylist to gain a barber’s license. While pursuing a strong sense of personal style and founding a brand called Celebritimage, Goodman also searched for the most authentic way of living and manifesting a God-given individuality. While getting both positive and negative feedback for the change she made in her appearance, Goodman refused to be defined by an image, instead feeling that “everything I do...is for the benefit of other people. Even the way I look is not just for me.” Goodman discusses her feelings about God’s watching out for all, her experiences with angels, numerology, and prophetic voices telling her truths about others and herself. It is a gift she uses to help others find confidence, their true calling, and to embrace their bodies and sexuality, also the theme of her book Three Seasons of Life: Discovery, Believe, Faith. Living briefly in Los Angeles, Goodman speaks of being gender fluid and identifying with the trans community, saying that all are capable of transformation. In response to questions, she addresses homophobia within the African American and African American religious communities, prejudice within the LGBTQ community, and she describes many Charleston bars such as Dudley’s, Pantheon, the Cure, and others, especially the once Black-friendly Déjà Vu. She notes the positive effects of increasing LGBTQ visibility yet thinks that it drives some back into hiding for fear of being identified with it. While Goodman uses social media to help influence people to embrace their true selves, she laments the abuse of dating apps. She concludes the interview with her thoughts on gentrification in Charleston, and the need of leaving a legacy, especially being Black and gay. Note: This interview was conducted when the narrator preferred male pronouns. The narrator now uses she/her pronouns and requested they be changed. The pronouns were substituted and are bracketed in the transcript, but they were not altered, or removed, from the audio file.
Stephen “Steve” Cagle (pronouns: He/Him/His) discusses his upbringing in North Carolina, education as a pharmacist, service in the armed forces, his experiences as a gay man in the South, abroad and in California, and eventually opening a gay bed and breakfast with his domestic partner, Charles S. Holt, at Folly Beach, SC. Born in Concord NC, he grew up with an ailing father who died young, and a mother who struggled to find her son positive male role models. Knowing he was gay from an early age, Cagle, while having sexual experiences, kept quiet about his orientation in his hometown where such things were not discussed, but not necessarily condemned. He had somewhat closeted affairs when he attended pharmacy school at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Drafted into the army, Cagle, wanting to serve his country to fulfill his father’s inability to do so, found a fairly tolerant attitude to gays in the military. Despite others being out, he was more reserved, yet he mentions sexual experiences at bases at home and abroad in his service in northern Italy. After leaving the service Cagle lived in Henderson, NC, and then in Charlotte, NC, working as a pharmacist. He describes a gay bar in Charlotte sharing a site with a Denny’s Restaurant and explains the allure and dangers of anonymous sex in rest stops on the Interstate 85 Highway corridor in North Carolina, mentioning a Highway Patrolman who frequented those sites. Having been raised an only child and feeling he lacked social skills in befriending people, Cagle did find relationships, eventually falling in love with a married US Marine who suggested Cagle move to California in 1977 to be near him. There, the affair ended, as Cagle knew it would, but he met Charles (Chuck) Holt, who worked in Los Angeles, reading film scripts and crossing paths with celebrities such as Liberace and Rock Hudson. The men became a couple, and they began to explore their options in 1986 after Holt discovered he was HIV positive. The couple pulled up stakes, began an extended road trip across the country, guided by Damron’s Gay Guides, and ended up founding and running the gay Charleston Bed and Breakfast at Folly Beach. Cagle discusses the place’s importance, its success, the friendly acceptance it met on Folly Beach, also mentioning Hurricane Hugo, and how others, including his mother, came to accept him and help run the B and B after Holt’s death in 1995. Cagle sold the B and B, retired from the Ralph Johnson Veterans Administration Hospital and now lives in Charleston with his husband John Meffert.
Pat Patterson (pronouns: He/Him/His) speaks of family life, childhood, growing up, coming out, his political activism through drag performance, interactions with the Methodist Church, and his perceptions of the LGBTQ community. Born and reared in a loving and accepting family environment in Spartanburg, SC, he attended Wofford College, the 37th family member to do so. “I’m a Palmetto tree with fairly deep roots,” he notes. He came out in graduate school at the University of SC, and speaks about the founding of its Bisexual Gay and Lesbian Association (BGLA) and how he assumed his drag persona Patti O’Furniture, “a bully pulpit to raise awareness,” on a dare. At various points in the interview, Patterson speaks of the stratification of the LGBTQ community (“part of our charm and part of our problem”), with most of the focus on Charleston, identifying the conservative “blazer gays” who practice “an odd social decorum” at private parties, the “SIN” or service industry gays who are more out, and other socially and geographically distanced groups. He speaks of racism, and racial and trans insensitivity, the difference between the Charleston Pride and the Columbia, SC-based South Carolina Pride organizations, the gay rugby team, the Charleston Blockade, and K. J. Ivery, once a student of his and now an out trans officer of the Charleston Police Department. Having first done AIDS work in Columbia, SC with his friend Bill Edens, he became involved with the SC Equality Coalition, and he mentions a variety of other LGBTQ organizations and leaders. He began commuting to Charleston to perform drag at the bar Patrick’s, eventually moving there, arranging performances at Dudley’s, and he now also performs at brunches, breweries and bingo, usually emceeing, giving his tips from the audience to charity and passing the hat at performances for different causes and organizations. Straight audiences, he notes, are often more appreciative, and in describing his own indoctrination into drag, he shares some of the vocabulary, mentions those icons who influenced him and praises Jay White for his Brooke Collins performances. He names and describes many bars throughout the state, speaks of his evolution as a performer and activist, as well as the need to be aware of how unintended insults or slurs can occur. Making distinctions between religion and faith, the latter very important to him, Patterson also describes his family’s attachment to their local Methodist congregation in Spartanburg and their dedication to liberalizing the Methodist Church in general.
K. J. Ivery (pronouns: He/Him/His), the first openly trans officer with the Charleston Police Department, discusses growing up, coming into his sexuality and gender identity, schooling, family relations and a variety of other topics. A Charleston native, Ivery grew up in a religious family where sexual non-conformity was not encouraged, and in a city where one faced further discrimination for being both Black and queer. He experienced difficulties with his parents after identifying as bisexual in middle school. Later identifying as gay, Ivery had a girlfriend in high school. He speaks of using the internet to find information and peers while in school, having attended Charles Towne Academy and later the Academic Magnet High School. He found the latter place very accepting, despite not being permitted to start a Gay-Straight Alliance, which he nevertheless did, using a different name to mask it. Identifying as trans-masculine, he discusses how he didn't come out to his family until he was identified in the Post & Courier as an openly transgender police officer. He began to investigate this part of his identity while attending the University of South Carolina, in Columbia, where he again was very active in its Gay-Straight Alliance. Ivery was impressed with Columbia's Harriet Hancock Center, and he discusses the arbitrariness and social constructs of gender, speaks of the "awesome things about... identifying as queer" and expresses delight in not being trapped in the limitations of being a cis-gender male, while also discussing the stud/femme roles prevalent in some lesbian communities. Having majored in criminology, he returned to Charleston in 2012 and immediately began working with the Charleston Police Department, which he lauds for its openness and high standards, and which adapted easily to his transitioning. On the force, he first worked in West Ashley neighborhoods before moving to the tourist districts downtown, while serving as an LGBT liaison to the community, which he describes as cliquish, and stratified along economic, racial and even geographic lines. He has worked with We Are Family, the Alliance for Full Acceptance (helping to administer the Trans Love Fund), Charleston Area Trans Support (CATS), and the Charleston YOUth Count, as well as founding a trans-masculine support and social group. He describes his relationship with his wife, Sam Diamond, the marriage ceremony they created and which their families attended, and how society looks at and presumes it understands the dynamics of their interracial marriage. He contrasts his spirituality compared to his family's rigid religious beliefs, voicing his respect for them and their views and noting the growing acceptance by his parents and siblings. Before concluding he also addresses gentrification in Charleston, specifically in regard to his grandparents' home on Line Street, his attendance at an early Charleston Pride Parade, his social life, and the advancements and progress of the LGBTQ community.
Shelli Quenga (pronouns: She/Hers), describes living all over the world, moving to Charleston in her 20s and coming out as a lesbian in her 40s. Her father was in the Air Force, and she discusses her experiences being the daughter of a mixed-race couple with a Guamanian father and a white mother. Educated at Vassar, she married twice. Although she had a gay uncle, “it just never occurred to me that being gay was an option,” she states. Married with one child, she met another woman with four children (two withs special needs) and their relationship began; the coming out process was “tortuous.” During it, she lost a relationship with her daughter, her parents, and her job due to its homophobic work environment. Quenga discusses how her experience differs from that of lesbians who never married men, noting her realization that heterosexuality did give her more power and status. She speaks of her obliviousness to LGBTQ people and issues before coming out and her limited awareness of the Charleston LGBTQ community. That changed once she met Lynn Dugan and began to attend functions organized by the Charleston Social Club, a local lesbian group that Dugan founded. She describes the pressure she feels to keep her personal and business lives separate, including on social media, while also observing how such mundane things as health care forms can be off-putting to LGBTQ people and express subtle discrimination. With the passage of time, she has become more vocal in order to demonstrate to others how misleading or stereotypical their assumptions about her can be, and she has found a shift in those around her, too. She and her wife have been accepted by their extended families, their children now have LGBTQ friends, and Quenga discusses how they keep her up to date with terminology and issues in the community. She mentions the rupture in the congregation of Old St. Andrews Episcopal Church over the ordination of a gay bishop, and ends the interview discussing racism and sexism in South Carolina, and how an inability to be fully free and out causes her to question staying in the state. Her advice for younger people, however, is to leave the state, achieve success not possible here, and then perhaps come back.
Jayson Gulick (pronouns: He/They) speaks of the challenges and satisfactions of his growing up, discovering his gender and sexual truths, and embracing both trans masculine and androgynous identities. Born in Wheaton, IL, into a Catholic family that faced prejudice from the Protestant majority, he moved with his family to Charleston when he was in the fifth grade. Having discovered and defined himself as trans by searching out information on the internet, he delayed coming out, feeling that the move to the Lowcountry would provide an appropriate opportunity. Experiences in public school and Catholic school convinced him to delay the announcement, however; he told his family just as a friend in Catholic school was denouncing Gulick for posing as a male on social media. Accepted by his parents and one sister, and rejected by another who had become fundamentalist, Gulick was out and visible at Wando High School, getting support from some staff but not others. He describes an attempt by the school to censor a student interview on the topic, noting how he and others posted it on YouTube instead. Gulick then describes his experiences at the College of Charleston, speaking of his good fortune of having previously legally changed his name, thus not having to experience being called by his dead name, as happened to some of his peers. He describes clandestine meetings of other trans students on campus (called T-Time) and some of their unwillingness and fear to have their identities known. Noting how therapy, top surgery, and association with We Are Family have been extremely beneficial, Gulick describes his connection with androgyny, his dislike of sexual assumptions about him by others, and how affirming participation in Charleston Pride events has been. Torn between being a teacher and a guidance counselor, he has decided on the latter, to help spare others from having to undergo experiences similar to his. Since South Carolina does not offer specific gender and sexual protections, he regrets that he may have to go elsewhere to fulfill that profession. The interview ends on a positive note with Gulick commenting that people just a few years younger than he are accepting on a broad array of gender and sexuality issues.
Edie Hirsch Rubin is the eldest of two children of Miriam Braun and Sigmund Hirsch, Romanians who fled Europe in early 1939. Edie describes her parents’ emigration by ship to Palestine, where they joined her mother’s cousin in Kibbutz Dan in the Golan. A couple of years later, they moved to Haifa and, in 1941, Edie was born; her sister, Ronite, was born in 1945. Edie talks about conditions in Haifa while growing up. Housing and food were scarce, tensions ran high, and they often sought refuge in bomb shelters during nighttime shelling of the city. She recalls feeling sad and acutely aware, as a child, of having almost no extended family. Her father had encouraged family members to leave Europe, to no avail, and most were killed in the Holocaust. Edie’s sadness was compounded by her lack of knowledge about the relatives who were lost; her parents did not share their memories with her or her sister. In 1952, the Hirsches moved to Montreal, Quebec, Canada. Edie discusses the move and how the family adjusted to a new country. She met her husband, Joseph Rubin, in Montreal, and they married in 1961. Joseph’s profession as a cardiothoracic surgeon brought the Rubins to the United States. They raised their four children in Augusta, Georgia, and retired in Charleston, South Carolina. Edie worked in special education. She has always tried to live her life the way her father taught her—give back to the community and be grateful for what you have. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.†Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Blanche Weintraub Wine and her daughter Dana Wine Johnson discuss how the experiences of Blanche's parents as Holocaust survivors have shaped their lives. Blanche, the oldest of six children, explains how Guta Blas and Leon Weintraub met in Wierzbnik, Poland, where they were incarcerated during World War II, and how they reconnected after liberation and ended up in Charleston, South Carolina. Central to Guta and Leon's story is sixteen-year-old Guta's brazen attack on a German officer just as she and other Jews, including her mother, were about to be shot. The force of Guta's personality is a recurring theme throughout the interview. Blanche recalls her mother telling her she was a replacement for her grandmothers, which she says didn't feel like that much of a burden, "but certainly, I knew there were certain things expected of me." She adds, "I was obligated to be the best I could be because . . . I was the product of two special people." Blanche describes how her parents introduced their memories to her as a young girl in an "age-appropriate" manner, providing greater detail as she got older. She became more emotional about her parents' experiences as an adult, when she was old enough to understand the "depth of suffering." Blanche acknowledges she had difficulty fitting in with Charleston's Jewish community and was lonely at times. She was aware that the other Jewish children were surrounded by extended family, something the Weintraubs were lacking. Dana says her experience is similar to her mother's in that she heard about the Holocaust from a young age and her sensitivity to it increased as she got older. She tells her grandmother's story whenever she is given the opportunity. She believes it's important to keep sharing stories so that the lessons of the Holocaust are not forgotten as the number of survivors diminishes. Blanche considers her negative feelings toward Poland and the Polish people, while Dana eagerly outlines her plan to visit Poland and retrace her grandparents' steps. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, "The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature." Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Richard Weintraub was born in Charleston, South Carolina, the fourth of six children, to Guta Blas and Leon Weintraub, both Holocaust survivors. He relates some details of his parents’ story, in particular Guta’s daring attack on a German officer after being told she and a group of people that included her mother were about to be shot. Richard doesn’t recall his father ever talking about his wartime experiences. Guta, however, “could talk about it anytime, anywhere, to anybody.†Richard believes it was cathartic for her, but says “I’m convinced she never really got it out of her system.†He considers his response, as a child, to hearing his mother’s stories, noting he “never felt any residual effect of their experiences.†Richard describes his childhood as normal and thinks Guta was overprotective of him, more so than his siblings. He explains why he think it’s important to contribute to Holocaust awareness and to speak out against injustice. This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.†Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Lisa Collis Cohen, born in 1958 in Kingstree, South Carolina, is the elder of two daughters of Jennie Goldberg and Moses Collis, both natives of Charleston, South Carolina. Lisa discusses her grandparents, Rebecca Leah Kirshtein and I. M. Goldberg, whose families migrated from Kaluszyn, Poland, to Charleston. Lena Schiawitz and Meyer Collis, who emigrated from Bialystok in the early 1900s, owned a Jewish bakery at 165 King Street in Charleston, and Lena ran a kosher catering business. Lisa describes the bakery, which closed, she believes, sometime during World War II. Her father, Moses, began working as a young boy for Charleston plumber W. K. Prause, whose shop was across the street from the bakery. Ultimately, Moses became "the state's youngest licensed journeyman plumber at age sixteen." His sister Becky married Harry Schreiberg. Harry's brothers Morris and Nathan had a store in Lane, South Carolina, and they lived in Kingstree. Morris encouraged Moses to come to Kingstree, where there were no plumbers. With help from his sister Sadie, Moses pursued the opportunity and, by 1947, he was in business in the small town about seventy-five miles north of Charleston. Later he became a licensed mechanical contractor. Lisa talks about growing up in Kingstree where she joined her Christian friends in their religious activities and went to their camps. The Collises observed the Sabbath on Friday nights with a family meal and services at Temple Beth Or in Kingstree. Lisa recalls the other Jewish families that lived in Kingstree and surrounding small towns, who were members of Beth Or, which was founded in 1945. The congregation relied on rabbis from Charleston's Conservative Synagogue Emanu-El to preside over bar mitzvahs and recruited students from Jewish Theological Seminary for the High Holidays. Lisa recounts how the family kept kosher, adding that every summer her father made large quantities of kosher dill pickles. Lisa went to Jewish camp in the summers and was involved in the Temple Youth Group that met in Sumter. "My Judaism, for me, was a very natural thing." When she was young, Lisa's mother, Jennie, tried to keep Lisa and her sister, Rhonda, "almost shomer Shabbat." Moses didn't agree with that degree of observance and encouraged assimilation. "My father didn't want me to feel different." Lisa, who attended public schools through sixth grade, discusses why her parents sent her to a private academy when integration was enforced in South Carolina. Among the topics covered in this interview are the Collis connection to the Mazo family of Charleston and Lisa's memories of her aunts and uncles, including Davy Collis, his band, Buddy Shaw, and his music company, Carolina Instrument, competitor of Fox Music House. Note: transcript includes comments and corrections made by interviewee during proofing. See Mss 1035-550 for part two of this interview. For a related collection, see also the Collis family papers, Special Collections, Addlestone Library, College of Charleston.
In this second of a two-part interview, Anita Moise Rosefield Rosenberg describes her career after graduating from the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill. She first took a job as music director at WPTF radio in Raleigh, North Carolina. When she and her husband, Ira Rosenberg, moved to Charleston, South Carolina, in the 1960s, she went to work at WKTM radio, owned by her cousin Ansley Cohen, selling advertising spots, and doing whatever else was needed. Anita notes that working at WKTM was exciting because it was FM, which "was coming into its own," and it was "Charleston's first rock station." After a few years, she went into "the advertising agency world" and was active in the local professional association, Advertising Federation of Charleston, and the national association, American Advertising Federation, which recognized her work with their Silver Medal Award. One of her clients was Pearlstine Distributors, who hired her to run its marketing and advertising department. Anita talks about other jobs she held and the various types of work she did in advertising. "Just every different avenue of this profession has been fun and interesting, and very rewarding to do." In Charleston, the interviewee has been involved in numerous Jewish and non-Jewish community organizations and events as part of her professional work and her personal commitment to giving back. She recounts how she met her husband, Ira, the son of Bessie Lipschutz and Alan Rosenberg. "Two different worlds met each other." Ira's parents, Orthodox Jews from New York, raised him in Richmond, Virginia. Anita grew up in Sumter, South Carolina, in a Reform temple. Anita and Ira's three children are David, Virginia, and Mindelle. Anita discusses how and why she and Ira were able to adopt Virginia in 1967 as an infant. The Rosenberg family belonged to Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE), Charleston's Reform synagogue. The interviewee talks about her children and grandchildren. Her son, David, and his wife, Marcie, are members of the relatively new Modern Orthodox Dor Tikvah in Charleston. Anita and Ira started keeping kosher years ago?something they did not do while raising their children?to accommodate family members who are kosher. Anita considers how practices have changed at KKBE: they have their first female rabbi and their first gay rabbi; the revised prayer books have English and Hebrew with transliterations and translations; the cantor's role has expanded and is more inclusive. She says, "Conservative and Reform are moving closer to each other in today's world," and adds "from a historical point of view, the ancestors were Sephardic Orthodox Jews who settled here. That's my beginnings. So I don't feel like this is so strange, it's just a part of who I am." Anita briefly covers a number of other topics, including KKBE's past rabbis; its present-day choir; how the influx of people from other states has changed the congregation; the current status of Charleston's Jewish congregations and how/why they get along so well; her opinion about the presence of Chabad in the area; Jewish-gentile relations; and her thoughts on the Temple Sinai Jewish History Center in her hometown of Sumter. In a postscript to this interview, Anita recalls Alfreda LaBoard of Johns Island, the African-American woman who "was our nursie" from the time the Rosenberg kids were small. "She raised my children. I could never have done all the things that I did in the community, as well as Ira and I both busy with our careers, if it hadn't been for Alfreda." Comments and corrections made by the interviewee during proofing have been added to the transcript. For part one of this interview, see Mss. 1035-554. For related interviews, see Anita's interviews with her husband Ira Rosenberg, Mss. 1035-452 and Mss. 1035-461, and with her son, David Rosenberg, Mss. 1035-175. Also see a 1995 interview with her mother, Virginia Moise Rosefield, Mss. 1035-007.
Anita Moise Rosefield Rosenberg, born in 1940, was raised in Sumter, South Carolina, the eldest of two children of Virginia Moise and Herbert A. Rosefield. Anita discusses her family history, noting that on her mother's side, their genealogy reaches back "to Luis de Torres, who sailed with Columbus and was probably the first Jew to set foot on the North American continent." The Harbys, another maternal line, arrived in North America in the 1700s. Her grandmother Anita Harby married Harmon DeLeon Moise, who changed his given name to Davis to avoid being confused with another Sumter lawyer of the same name. Davis Moise was part of a South Carolina legislative delegation that traveled to Providence, Rhode Island, to recruit industries willing to move south. Frank Louis Rosenfield, husband of Leah Rachel Kleiger and a hosiery manufacturer, took the opportunity and moved his factory and his family to Sumter, changing their name to Rosefield. Anita's father, Herbert, met her mother in Sumter's Reform synagogue, Temple Sinai. Herbert was the South Carolina vice president for Ezekiel & Weilman Company, a restaurant supply business headquartered in Richmond, Virginia. Also a musician, Herbert served as Temple Sinai's cantor for fifty years. Anita talks about a few of her ancestors and their accomplishments, including Penina Moise and Rachel Lazarus, as well as relatives she knew, such as her aunt Nina Moise Solomons Phelps and her uncles Lucius Clifton Moise, Davis DeLeon Moise, and Marion Moise. Anita recalls that before Sunday school, Grandfather Rosefield treated her and her younger brother, Herbert Jr., to breakfast at Jim's Waffle Shop, owned by Jim Karvelas, a member of the Greek community in Sumter. Anita says in the interview, "My Jewish education was Classical Reform." She was confirmed and she belonged to Temple Sinai's youth group, Southeast Federation of Temple Youth, which was very active in South Carolina. Anita's father wanted her to get an education so she could support herself. Her parents expected her to work during the summers rather than be idle. Anita started working at twelve and, by fourteen, she "was on the air at WSSC in Sumter doing commercials, playing music back in the old days of being a DJ." The summer she was fifteen, she attended theater school at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and the following summer she worked for the university's radio and television stations. Anita briefly describes her involvement in the National Federation of Temple Sisterhoods, serving as an officer locally, regionally, and nationally. The interviewee concludes by observing that "Sumter was a totally socially integrated city." Her parents were involved in productions at the local theater; Anita went to a Roman Catholic kindergarten; young Jewish ladies were invited to make their society debut alongside their non-Jewish peers; and Jewish and Christian professionals went into business together. "We were so southern, and we were so Sephardic, we looked down our nose at anybody who came from off." Comments and corrections made by the interviewee during proofing have been added to the transcript. This is the first part of a two-part interview, conducted on the same day; see Mss. 1035-555 for part two. For related interviews, see Anita's interviews with her husband Ira Rosenberg, Mss. 1035-452 and Mss. 1035-461, and with her son, David Rosenberg, Mss. 1035-175. Also see an interview with her mother, Virginia Moise Rosefield, Mss. 1035-007.
Lisa Collis Cohen, in the second half of a two-part interview, talks about her nursing career at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, where she worked in obstetrics and gynecology, and at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia, where she says, "I found my home on the cardiothoracic service." In 1996, she retired to take care of her family, which consisted of her husband, Sherman Cohen of Atlanta, and her young children, Michael and Meredith. Lisa and Sherman are founding members of Congregation Or Hadash in Atlanta. The interviewee describes the Conservative congregation's break from Ahavath Achim Synagogue in 2003; their spiritual leaders, Rabbis Analia Bortz and her husband, Mario Karpuj; and their synagogue, which was created through the "adaptive reuse" of a Chevy dealership's auto repair shop. The Cohen children attended Jewish day school, and, for that reason, Lisa feels, "it's been a lot easier for them to be Jewish" than it was for her. Contrasting her children's constant exposure to other Jewish Atlantans with her own childhood in the small rural town of Kingstree, South Carolina, where there were few Jewish residents, Lisa thinks her children take Judaism for granted more than she did. Lisa's parents kept kosher in their Kingstree home, but not outside the house. About her mother, Jennie Goldberg Collis, Lisa says, keeping a kosher home "was the one thing she did that would still cement her Jewish identity." Lisa believes it's important to give your offspring an identity and hopes Michael and Meredith will incorporate Judaism into their homes in some way. She explains why she is proud to be a Jewish southerner and offers her thoughts on the controversy surrounding Confederate monuments. She honors her family's past, stating, "I'm really proud of the fact that I am keeping the ideals that my grandparents risked their lives for to come over to this country." Lisa has not experienced antisemitism as an adult, nor did she as a child in Kingstree, recalling that she and her Christian friends were respectful of each other's religious traditions. She remembers one headmaster of her private school in Kingstree as a bigot who "espoused a lot of commentary about Hitler and the Nazi party." When her parents brought it to the attention of the board, he was fired. That single instance of intolerance from her childhood contrasts sharply with her current outlook: "I think in the last few years I have personally felt like there is more of a mandate that supports hate in this country across all borders... I think this is the first time in my life, as an American Jewish citizen, that I really feel like we are facing a credible threat to what everybody knows as their... way of life." Other topics covered in this interview include how the Collises celebrated the holidays when Lisa was young and how Lisa and her husband celebrate now; the impact the Holocaust had on her family; Lisa and Sherman's support for Israel; Lisa's observations of the Jews of Atlanta; and Lisa's connection to Marian Birlant Slotin?now deceased?of Charleston. Note: transcript includes comments and corrections made by interviewee during proofing. See Mss 1035-549 for part one of this interview. For a related collection, see the Collis family papers, Special Collections, Addlestone Library, College of Charleston.
Evaline Kalisky Delson relays her mother’s experiences as a Holocaust survivor. Dientje Krant, born in Bussum, Holland, in 1938, spent part of her early childhood in hiding during World War II. After the war, she rejoined her parents, who themselves were hidden by Dutch families. Dientje, anxious to escape her parents’ strict rules, left home right after graduating from high school and was hired to work on an ocean liner docked in Germany. There she met Evaline’s father, Leonard Kalisky, a Kingstree, South Carolina, native, who was stationed at a U.S. military base. They raised their three children in Isle of Palms, South Carolina, and then Holland, before returning to South Carolina. Evaline describes her childhood and the difficulties that arose from Dientje’s struggles with mental illness and memories of wartime traumas. She talks about how she copes with the residual effects of the challenges she faced growing up and expresses concern for the lack of progress made by mankind. “I don’t think we really learned from these tragedies. . . . I did not think in my lifetime that I would have to stand up like we do for gay rights, for women’s rights, for Jews, for Muslims, to have to have a march because a mosque is being bombed. . . . I thought we would grow. So to hear these stories and to see what’s going on right now in the world, it’s hard because a lot of my family died in vain.†Evaline feels that “it is our obligation, as this direct link to this atrocity, to stand up for these atrocities that are occurring now.†This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.†Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston. Note: Dientje Krant Kalisky Adkins’ oral history, Mss. 1035-145, is online at the Lowcountry Digital Library.
Sandra Brett outlines her parents’ experiences during World War II. She responds to questions about her awareness of and reaction to her parents’ wartime stories, and how they have impacted her life. Raised in Johnstown, Pennsylvania, she describes home life for herself and an older brother and sister, saying they had a “pretty normal upbringing.†She notes that she was never interested in the Holocaust until she visited Theresienstadt, in the Czech Republic, about fifteen years ago, and was captivated by the children’s artwork she saw there. An artist herself, Sandra has worked with the Charleston Jewish Community Center and Jewish Federation of Charleston to teach Holocaust history through art, but not out of a sense of honoring her parents or the need to fulfill a mission of remembrance. She gives no more importance to her parents’ stories than to any other survivor, pointing to the large number of atrocities, past and present, worldwide. “I have trouble dissociating that horror from all the other horrors.†She adds, “I think my parents’ story is more important than any reaction that I have to it.†This is one of a number of interviews conducted by Ph.D. candidate Lucas Wilson for his dissertation, “The Structures of Postmemory: Portraits of Survivor-Family Homes in Second-Generation Holocaust Literature.†Wilson was awarded two Charleston Research Fellowships (May 2017, February 2019) by the Pearlstine/Lipov Center for Southern Jewish Culture at the College of Charleston.
Colleen Condon (b. 1970) describes her upbringing in an Irish-American family in Charleston. Her family came to the States from County Cork during the time of the Famine, first landing in a northern city before coming to Charleston, which she remarks is most likely due to the similarities between Charleston and County Cork. Her great-great-grandfather started Condon’s department store in Charleston in 1899, which was family owned until closing in 1984. She discusses what it was like growing up in a large but very close-knit family with lots of ties to the community. She feels that issues of prejudice and discrimination against Irish Catholics in particular is something that has decreased through the generations, and that the Irish Catholics have become more integrated with the wider community as the years have passed, that Irish identity has “mesh[e]d really well” with Southern identity in Charleston. As to the difference between Charleston and other southern cities, she feels that the Irish community and sense of Irish identity is more prominent in Charleston than it is in places such as Atlanta or Charlotte. Part of her interview also includes her experience as a lesbian in an Irish-Catholic family, and how she has begun to try to separate her Irish identity from Catholicism because of the difficulties she has faced. Colleen and her wife were the first couple in the state of South Carolina to be granted a marriage license as a same-sex couple, after a long legal battle.
Sean Doherty discusses his experience growing up as part of an Irish-American family in New York City. His parents emigrated from County Donegal in the 1920s. He discusses growing up in a neighborhood of various first-generation immigrants from different backgrounds. He was an officer in the United States Marine Corps, until he became a salesman for Sylvan Pyrometric Systems, eventually retiring and coming to Charleston.
Barbara Dugan discusses her upbringing as part of an Irish-American family in New York City. Her grandparents emigrated from County Mayo and County Kerry around 1900. Her grandmother, Catherine, took care of janitorial duties in her apartment building while her grandfather, Patrick, became employed in steel works and helped to build several New York City area bridges. As a child, she had difficulty getting her grandmother to speak in detail about Ireland, which she suspects is because of the hardships the family endured before their move to the United States. Barbara grew up going to all-girls Catholic schools and was raised Catholic. She speaks glowingly of her travels in Ireland and discusses the various ways in which she passes a sense of Irish-American identity onto her children and grandchildren. Barbara recently relocated to Charleston to be close to her married son and grandchildren, who live in Mt. Pleasant.
Jeremiah Courtney discusses his experience as an Irish immigrant in New York City, and then in Charleston. He came to the States full time in 1991, after having lived in London for five years and finding life there difficult for an Irishman. He speaks warmly of growing up in Kilarney, County Kerry, but left largely because he felt that Ireland couldn’t offer him the variety and adventure that he wanted in his life. He felt welcomed and supported upon first arriving in the States, particularly by others in the Irish or Irish-American community. He made his way down to Charleston after feeling he needed a break from New York. Though he was raised in the Catholic church and attended Catholic school, he finds himself turning away from Catholicism, and has not passed that on to his children.
Eimer Kernan discusses her experience as an Irish immigrant. She is the youngest of five siblings from Dublin, and first came to the States in the late seventies on a J1 visa, then later came to live here full-time with her American husband. She has worked as a clinician, researcher, teacher, and consultant for thirty years. She comments on the difference in diversity between Ireland and the States, stating that Ireland is very homogenous, especially when compared to the States, and discusses how she “dials” herself back into Irish culture whenever she returns to Ireland. On religion, she remarks that she found the Catholic church restricting from an early age, so she feels that Catholicism, and religion in general, is not a part of her identity, though it did play a role in her upbringing in Ireland. She speaks specifically to her experience as a woman with a career, and of the difficulties that women face in trying to balance work and family. Above all, she maintains her identity as “Irish-Irish,” and considers herself “a bicoastal dual citizen.”
Darragh Doran (b. 1977) discusses his experience as an Irish immigrant in Charleston. He grew up in Chapelizod, a small village in Dublin, and first came to the States in 1997 on a J1 visa. His first experience in the U.S. was in Newport, Rhode Island, and, then in 1999, he made his way to Charleston, wanting to experience what he saw as the charm of the South, and wanting to better experience American culture. His first job in Charleston was with Bosch, who initially offered him a three-month internship, but at that time he didn’t expect to stay in the States. The sense of community, he states, is much stronger in Ireland, and he currently feels conflicted about whether he wants to return to Ireland or stay here as he gets older. He does state that the Irish are very warmly received here in the States, which he appreciates. Darragh is a realtor in town and runs CharlestonIrish.com and its associated Facebook page, dedicated to helping Irish immigrants in Charleston through business and personal networking. The ultimate goal of the Charleston Irish website is to help build up a well-connected community of Irish immigrants and their businesses in Charleston and the surrounding area.
Paul Flaherty, a former Lieutenant in the U.S. Marine Corps, discusses his upbringing as part of an Irish-American family in Boston and in Charleston. The paternal side of his family came from Galway in the early 1900’s and settled in Boston. The lore states that his family goes back to the twelfth century in Ireland. His father, Anthony, was in the Navy, while his mother, Mary, was a homemaker. He is the oldest of five children. He shares fond memories of growing up and being immersed in Irish culture at his grandparents’ house in South Boston, surrounded by a houseful of Irish immigrants and constantly hearing stories about Ireland. Most of the immigrants he came into contact with during childhood had emigrated to the States for work. He briefly discusses the importance of identifying as Americans first, specifically in how his grandparents spoke Gaelic but didn’t pass it on to the next generations, and of the importance of ensuring that the next generation of Irish-Americans are as well-educated as they can be. He also discusses the prevalence of Irish gangs in Boston. One of his main assertions is that, from his perspective, the Irish culture and Irish heritage is severely lacking in Charleston, especially when compared to the culture he was surrounded by in childhood in Boston.
Michael Duffy (b. 1943) discusses his upbringing as part of an Irish-American family in Charleston. His paternal grandfather, William J. Duffy, emigrated from County Donegal, and the family settled in the coal region of Pennsylvania. His mother’s side of the family came over from Clonmel, County Tipperary, through New Orleans and settled in Charleston. Michael travelled to Annagry, in a Gaeltacht (Irish-speaking) region on the West coast of Ireland, on a search for more information about the Duffys, and stumbled upon a pub where he was able to get more information about the Duffys from that region. He has pieced together much of his family’s background since but is still searching for more information. He has travelled numerous times to Ireland and has built numerous friendships through his travels. In his discussion of growing up as an Irish-Catholic in Charleston, he recalls some of the anti-Catholic sentiments he encountered in childhood, specifically the vivid memories of his childhood friend’s mothers asking him peculiar questions about the Pope. He acknowledges that the Catholic church, and the various duties and services associated with it, played a central role in his upbringing. He speaks about the current Irish community in Charleston, and how the Hibernian Society is taking steps to promote Irish culture in the city, whether by bringing Irish music in, or through commemorative or educational events such as the building of the Irish Memorial on Charlotte Street. Michael is immensely proud of his Irish-American background, and of the contributions the Irish-American immigrants have made in the States.
Historian Stephen J. White, Sr. discusses his experience as an Irish-American in Charleston, and his work in dispelling myths about the Irish in the South. His family emigrated from various areas in Ireland, with family from County Kilkenny, County Mayo, County Clare, and County Antrim in Northern Ireland. Most of them came over in the mid-1800’s. He is one of ten children from a very religious Irish-Catholic family. He has been tracing the history of the Irish in Charleston, beginning with Captain Florence O’Sullivan’s landing in 1670, and has taught courses and written on the contributions of the Irish to Charleston’s rich history. The focus of his research and writing is that the experience of the Irish in northern cities is a rather stereotypical one, and that there is a significant Irish presence in the American South, with experiences that are often vastly different from those who emigrated to northern cities. Stephen is a member of numerous Irish organizations in Charleston, including the Irish Historical Society of South Carolina and the Ancient Order of Hibernians, and is dedicated to educating others about the important role that the Irish have played in Charleston’s history.
Ron Plunkett discusses his experience as an Irish-American in the South. His Irish family background is largely derived from County Meath, County Louth, and County Dublin, and the first ancestor of his to come to the States was Captain Peter Plunkett, who arrived in Virginia around 1690. Ron was born and raised in Atlanta, Georgia. His background is Welsh, German, and French Huguenot, as well as Irish. Ron was raised in the Episcopal Church. Of anti-Irish or anti-Catholic sentiment, he states that he feels such discrimination or prejudice wasn’t a part of his experience in Atlanta, and that religious or ethnic background didn’t seem to be as big of a deal as it might have been in other places. He also discusses his time in the service during the Korean War. He first visited Ireland in the seventies on business and returned several times through his job with Sealand/Maersk Line, speaking of his experience as a visitor in the best of terms. He is a member of the Hibernian Society of Charleston and the St. David’s Society, a Welsh organization. To him, being of Irish descent in America is about celebrating one’s heritage and knowing one’s history, to share pride in the contributions of one’s ancestors.
"Gianni Leonardi, Daniel ""Danny"" McCann, and Adam Tracey speak about their experiences as Irish immigrants in the United States. Gianni and Danny are the owners of two Irish pubs in the Charleston area while Adam works at a pub on Johns Island. Gianni hails from the rural, Irish-speaking parish of Gweedore, in County Donegal. He first came to the United States in 2009 as part of a sponsorship by a pub in Michigan through his university in Ireland. He wanted to come to the U.S. for the opportunity to make a living in the hospitality industry and relocated to Charleston from Ann Arbor to open an Irish pub. He speaks of the vast difference between his rural upbringing and his life in a more suburban/urban environment. He makes a point to discuss the authenticity of Irish hospitality, and how, in owning and operating a pub, he tries to further that sense of genuine Irish warmth. Danny is from Lurgan, County Armagh. He came to the U.S. in 1998, to Detroit, to work in the same pub that later sponsored Gianni. Having grown up in Northern Ireland, he has the most firsthand experience of the Irish Troubles. He speaks briefly about Irish politics and witnessing some of the violence in the North in the 1990s. Adam comes from County Offlay, outside of Tullamore. Before working in hospitality, he had worked in construction in Yonkers, New York. Though he has little firsthand experience with the Troubles, he tells the story of a grand-uncle who was killed young by a bombing in the North. All three speak to their experience within the small community of Irish immigrants in Charleston, and how the community works to bring newly-arrived Irish immigrants together with those who are already established in Charleston. They agree that without the support of the Irish community, their experience in Charleston would have been very different."
Dennis "Denny" O’Brien discusses his upbringing as part of an Irish-American family. His maternal grandfather came over during the Famine and settled in Tennessee. His paternal grandfather came over from a small town outside of Cork in 1912, to Omaha, Nebraska, where he practiced law. His father was an Army officer, so he spent much of his childhood overseas, including Japan, where he attended high school. He eventually settled in Charleston after marrying a woman who’s family has been here for generation. He’s been a member of the Ancient Order of Hibernia and belongs to a number of Catholic organizations. He discusses stories passed on to him by his father, particularly about political events in Ireland, and how the events framed a lot of the anti-British sentiment among the Irish, including members of his family. His family identified primarily as American Irish, rather than Irish-American, and that their Catholic identity was prioritized above their Irish background. The Catholic Church played an important role in his upbringing, and Catholicism is something he has tried to pass on to his children as much as possible. For him, his family is, first and foremost, American with Irish heritage. While he states that the Irish presence is stronger and “more militant” in northern cities such as Boston, he argues that there is a significant Irish culture and community in Charleston.
Bar owner Tommy Snee discusses his experiences as an Irish immigrant in Charleston. He is the youngest of ten children and describes his upbringing in a poor family as a happy one despite the hardships of poverty. He first came to the United States at the age of seventeen in 1980, to stay with an aunt and uncle in St. Augustine, Florida for a holiday. He returned home for a period of time before returning to the States in 1986 and gaining his green card. He gained U.S. citizenship in 2017. He attended a Christian Brothers School in Ireland, and left school at the age of fourteen to work in construction. Feeling that there was “nowhere to go in Ireland,” he came to the States, where he found the opportunity to work hard and make a life immensely appealing. The weather, the diversity, and the local culture drew him to Charleston from New York. He finds that the response to him as an immigrant has been nothing but positive. While he loves his life in the States, he states that, first and foremost, “I’ll always be an Irishman.” On Irish stereotypes, he disagrees with many of the simplistic stereotypes, but argues that the best way for Irish immigrants to dispel these kinds of false notions is through education. He also discusses the importance of honoring diverse backgrounds and experiences, and the importance of listening to and learning from those with different perspectives, which he feels is critical for America, or for any country, to becoming as great as it can be.
Niall Cahill (b. 1952) describes his experience as an Irish immigrant in Charleston. He grew up in the Ballybough and Ballymount areas of Dublin and attended Christian Brothers schools. His father was a postman, and his mother was in charge of the bed and breakfast that was run out of the family home. Despite his family?s economic success in the mid-sixties, they could not afford to send Niall to university, so he joined the Irish Civil Service. His first experience of the U.S. was as a visitor in the late seventies, and he has traveled much of the country, before deciding to come to the States permanently in 2010, a decision driven by the Civil Service cutting positions and offering him an appealing deal for retirement. He continued his work in procurement here, having earned a Master?s in the field, which helped make him an appealing candidate for hiring in the U.S. As to his experiences in both countries, he misses the sense of camaraderie that he feels is more prevalent in Ireland. Despite this, he remarks that the Irish community in Charleston is invaluable in its support of immigrants like himself.
John Martin Taylor (pronouns: He/His/Him) born in Baton Rouge, LA in 1949, discusses his youth, university years, his travels, various careers in art and the culinary world, his family, friends, lovers and his husband. His father was a scientist with the Manhattan Project who moved the family to Orangeburg, S.C. Taylor speaks of a happy outdoor childhood, with some African American friends in the segregated South and little awareness of gay life or issues. The family also summered at Hilton Head, S.C. before its development, giving Taylor firsthand experience with the land and its foodways. He attended the University of Georgia in Athens, Ga. at two different times, for undergraduate and graduate degrees. He speaks at length of the artistic circles there, including that of the musical group, The B-52s, whose first concerts he attended and with whom he remained friends, later describing their visit to the Charleston gay bar, Les Jardins. He came to Charleston, S.C. in 1975, left for the Virgin Islands, and lived in Paris, France and in Italy, pursuing a career as a visual artist and a photographer, eventually, becoming American Liaison and Food Editor of the French periodical ICI New York. Returning to Charleston, he had little to do with the local gay scene, feeling an equal attraction to men and women, or mostly to particular individuals who interested him. As his love for cooking grew, influenced by what he calls his strong “maternal instinct,” his childhood experience crabbing and fishing in the Lowcountry, his mother’s culinary skills, and his father’s interest in wines, he began to focus on a career. After learning the business in New York City, Taylor opened Hoppin’ John’s, a cookbook store in Charleston, and quickly became the recognized expert on Lowcountry and regional cooking and foodways, eventually publishing articles on the topic in local, regional and national publications. A serendipitous find of a manuscript cookbook from St. John’s Parish of Berkeley County prompted and nourished further research. After recovering from the damage done to his bookstore by Hurricane Hugo in 1989, Taylor published his first book, Hoppin’ John’s Lowcountry Cooking in 1992. He has published three books since then and mentored many while enjoying the friendship and respect of leading scholars in the field. Taylor notes the changes in the local culinary and restaurant scene, lauding many chefs and proprietors for their contributions. He and Mikel Lane Harrington were married in Washington, D.C. in 2010. Through Harrington’s work with the Peace Corps, the couple, based in Savannah, Ga. and Washington, D.C. have lived in various locations across the world.
Josh Langdon Hooser grew up in Pea Ridge, a small town near Huntington, West Virginia, which he describes as “very conservative.” During this interview, he discusses his childhood, with mentions of being bullied in school until he switched from theatre to sports, his experience coming out, what led him to settle in Charleston, some experiences at the College of Charleston, including being excluded from a fraternity, his marriage, and his work as a lawyer focusing on LGBTQ clients and issues. His coming-out experience, in which he called a “family meeting,” began a process of acceptance within his family. He describes the judgements directed his way by Democratic and more liberal members of the LGBTQ community, due to his being a Republican, yet he also explains how he tried to impact the Republican Party and some of its candidates on social LGBTQ issues, noting that he was active in the John McCain Presidential Campaign and served on a statewide board of South Carolina College Republicans. He worked for the Human Rights Campaign in West Virginia, and details the attitudes he encountered from a very religious woman state legislator on LGBTQ issues. He also discusses some discrimination and resistance he and his fiancé encountered while planning their wedding and describes the culmination of factors that led to his decision to plan to relocate his practice from Cincinnati, Ohio to Charleston, South Carolina. He refers to the importance of both biological and chosen families, and how he and his husband plan to start a family, contrasting the issues gay men face in that field versus those faced by lesbians. He describes many of the legal issues confronting LGBTQ people, due to conflicting state and federal laws, and is particularly sympathetic to the difficulties of trans people. In replying to the interviewer’s questions, he sums up difference between his “millennial” generation and the generation that came before and the one that is coming after. He mentions many legal decisions and social shifts that have impacted LGBTQ communities, and sees fragmentation and intersectionality as one of the biggest hurdles facing the LGBTQ community today, particularly in respect to race and gender.
Lynn Dugan attended Catholic grammar and high schools in New York City. With a lesbian friend, she visited lesbian bars where rigid “butch” or “fem” roles prevailed. She came of age just after the Stonewall Riots of 1969, later befriending some of the participants, as she became part of a community that looked after and protected each other from attacks, some of which she describes. She notes the comradery of men and women in the early gay rights movement, and the accessibility of many future celebrities entertaining in the gay baths and bars. She was mentored by an older gay man, Jimmy Alan Newcomer and she created a marriage ceremony with a woman opera singer at St. Peter’s MCC Church in 1981. She witnessed the start of the AIDS crisis and the work of many women and activists such as Larry Kramer. Professionally, she held jobs in management and sales, drove a taxi, and had her own greeting card company. In some jobs, she had to hide her sexuality. She visited Colorado often before moving to Boulder ca. 1993, participating in the LGBTQ community there. While attending a Pride parade in Columbia SC, she met political activist Charlie Smith, who invited her to Charleston, SC; she moved there soon after and began her involvement in the community, founding the Charleston Social Club, which offered opportunities to many isolated and closeted women. One of the programs, Lezz Fest, produced on the club’s tenth anniversary closed off part of North Charleston and drew 1,000 participants. Dugan was the prime mover in establishing the first Pride Festival in the lowcountry. She and a cadre of friends staged fundraisers for the event which the City of Charleston wanted to sideline. The city of North Charleston, however, including Mayor R. Keith Summey, who served as grand marshal of the parade, supported it, despite the criticism of many local churches. The Charleston Pride Organization event took place on May 15, 2010, and its impact, and that of the evening event held on the Citadel campus, is described in detail by Dugan. In response to questions, she comments on African American participation in the community and ends the interview with suggestions of other issues that LGBTQ community could address, such as the care of its older citizens, a task in which she is involved.
Lee Anne Leland (pronouns: She/Hers) now living in McClellanville, SC, tells her story of coming to terms with and exploring her identity as a self-identified gender-nonconforming, lesbian, transgender woman. Being raised as a boy in a family of five siblings, she grew up in a prominent, socially and religiously conservative Mount Pleasant family where she struggled to understand and come to terms with her identity facing the disapproval of many. She describes a continuing and confusing search for self-expression and the impact such words as “cross-dresser” and “transsexual” had on her and her search for community, until, with the help of friends, she found her transgender identity. She recounts how she dealt with coming out, her experience with depression, thoughts of suicide, dysphoria over her appearance, various work experiences, and self-acceptance as an adult. Through all of this, Leland discusses the love and support she has received from her wife, Cindy, and the role she has had as an activist. Leland continues as coordinator of the Charleston Area Transgender Support (CATS), a board member of We Are Family, and a speaker at public events such as Transgender Day of Remembrance. She discusses how she perceives that claiming and living her authentic existence, even walking down the street, can be an act of political activism. Leland stresses the need for conversations and political activism especially in the political climate of 2018. Additionally, Leland recounts experiences and histories of Charleston’s gay bars, specifically the Lion’s Head, and the King Street Garden and Gun Club. She also mentions White Point Garden as a cruising spot, the Spoleto Festival, and the impact that the transsexual Dawn Langley Hall Simmons had on the Charleston community.
Charles W. Smith discusses growing up, his adult professional life as a city planner and realtor, his personal life and his work as an activist for LGBTQ rights. His family lived in Orangeburg, Beaufort, Florence and Charleston and he was educated at the College of Charleston and Clemson University, moving to Miami in 1984. His early family life was overshadowed by the illness and death of an older brother. Realizing he was gay, he avoided being bullied in school by staying closeted. In 1987 in Miami Beach, FL, he met Carlos Guillermo Rodriguez. Soon after, Smith told his family he was gay and Rodriguez tested HIV positive. He wanted Smith to leave him, but Smith refused; their families in South Carolina and Colombia, South America accepted them. Trinity Episcopal Cathedral in Miami, with which Smith was affiliated as a senior warden, was also accepting and affirming. After his lover’s death in 1995, Smith, who had run for political office, but lost, moved to Charleston, SC in 1996, finding a changed city, which he attributes to Mayor Joseph P. Riley, Jr. We Are Family, a youth-oriented LGBTQ organization had been founded by Thomas Myers and Smith stayed, founding a real estate firm catering to LGBTQ clients. There were a number of bars in town he remembers frequenting; he affiliated with St. Stephen’s Episcopal Church, a historically African American congregation opened up to white congregants, many of whom were LGBTQ. Smith and others, mostly non natives, such as Linda Ketner, Jim and Warren Redman-Gress, Carolyn Kirk, Lynne Moldenhauer and Linda G. William, helped found Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA). They publicly confronted a newspaper ad attacking LGBTQ people. This, Smith believes, began the process of removing shame and empowering the LGBTQ community. Smith also describes the “thousand year rainfall event” of 2015 and his marriage to Rob Suli that year, in a Columbia, SC hospital to ensure their rights were respected in the arena of health care. He notes the importance of the internet to LGBTQ people in finding community. He mentions Lowcountry Gay and Lesbian Alliance (LGLA), the lives of Jay Edgar Hoover and Clyde Tolson in Miami, and two gay men, who wintered in Charleston, SC. They, according to Smith, participated in the gay purges of US State Department employees in the 1940s and ‘50s. He also mentions the ownership of gay bars in Charleston, SC and the conflict over LGBTQ rights that has split the local Episcopal Diocese.
Regina Duggins tells the story of her childhood in metropolitan New York, growing up in a tightknit family with her strong connections to religion and the surrounding community. She describes her traumatic experiences with men at a young age, and how this relates to her more positive connections and relationships with women throughout her life, including several long-term romantic relationships. She also recounts her early activism, in which she formed a dance team in her apartment building to prevent other young girls from experiencing the sexual abuse she had. In discussing two of her siblings who died, she notes that both were LGBTQ and lived closeted lives; her brother died of AIDS. She raised five children, sons and daughters of her siblings, and was the first of all of her family to openly declare her identity as a proud black lesbian. Family connections prompted her to move to Charleston, SC in 2010 with her children, and her mother; here she has continued her activism, motivated by the closeted communities and pervasive racism of the area. Her education, experience and persistence led the leaders of Charleston Pride to offer her a spot on the board. Despite the challenges she has witnessed in Charleston regarding racial discrimination and discrimination against the LGBTQ community, she believes change is coming and has faith that she will live to see a day when a new generation succeeds in creating a world in which love wins.
Taylor DeBartola tells the story of his upbringing in Peachtree City, Georgia, a town he describes as “very conservative.” He discusses the competitive relationship he had with his younger brother who is close in age, as well as the role that religion played in their early life. DeBartola reflects on the way that he revealed his sexuality to his family, and the period of time where things between them were rocky, discussing the ways in which he had to be patient and allow his parents to “take their time” to accept him. Taylor then talks about his “chosen family,” and the way they all met at Dudley’s, a popular gay bar in downtown Charleston. He details the ways he sees gatherings with gay men changing in recent years, moving from public spaces to more private locations such as personal residences. Taylor also discusses gay married life in the South, later noting that he and his now-husband were “engaged when it was not going to be legal,” and stressing that young people should educate themselves on gay history, especially the HIV/AIDS crisis, which he stresses is far from over. He also talks about the ways that particular books shaped him and his desire to learn more about gay history, mentioning Harlan Greene’s Why We Never Danced the Charleston. DeBartola then describes the impact that artist and activist David Wojnarowicz has had on his life, and the ways that he has tried to trace Wojnarowicz’s and his partner’s time spent on a trip to Charleston. Finally, Taylor talks about his experiences being an openly gay College of Charleston student.
At a “Unity in the Community” Forum sponsored by the Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Reverend Robert Arrington answers questions posed to him by female impersonator/performer Symone N. O’Bishop and members of the audience. After introductions by emcee Regina Duggins (aka Gina Mocha), Arrington speaks of his personal life, conditions in the lowcountry, and the development and evolution of his open and affirming Charleston Unity Fellowship Church. He describes growing up in Durham, NC, and living in Rochester, NY, before moving to Charleston, a place he finds not as progressive or easy to live as elsewhere. He mentions a dysfunctional childhood, being misdiagnosed with learning disabilities, and recalls various phases of his life, including being married to woman, being a female impersonator, being HIV positive for thirty years, and the love he now shares with his husband, stating that they were the first “out” African American gay male couple in the area to have a house built for them by Habitat for Humanity. Most of the interview, however, focuses on the growth of his church, his plans for it, and the need to be completely transparent in all aspects of one’s life, including one’s spiritual life. He and O’Bishop discuss the behavior of some closeted LGBTQ church goers, who hide their sexual and emotional lives to worship under ministers who preach against homosexuality. The only “out” African American minister in the area, Arrington describes his church as Pentecostal-related and its policy of accepting every one of every sexual orientation, identification and race. He responds to an HIV-positive transgender woman of color asking how to find a loving relationship; he and the interviewer also discuss sexually irresponsible behavior and strategies for finding a life partner. Prompted by other queries from the audience, Reverend Arrington agrees that there is a need for more coordination with his church and the community it represents with other agencies in the area. An audience member comments further that there must be a new attitude regarding such participation: instead of asking to be included, one must demand that inclusion. The interview ends with Chase Glenn of AFFA and others describing programs and initiatives of related interest in the area. A call for action results with applause at the comment that this forum may mark a new direction for one of Charleston’s marginalized communities.
Linda Ketner is a strategic planning consultant for mostly nonprofit organizations; she and her partner Beth have been together for almost twenty years. She grew up in the small town of Faith, NC, eventually moving to Raleigh and finally, Salisbury, NC. Ketner recalls realizing her sexual identity at about age twelve and asking her mother about girls marrying girls. Her mother’s strong negative response prompted Ketner to learn more; she looked up “homosexual” in her local library and found literature that was even more discouraging. A series of events led her to live a double life: one “supposedly straight” and the other, her hidden true self. In college, Ketner began her first relationship with a woman while simultaneously dating men in the hopes of finding one with whom she was compatible. This eventually led to a number of broken engagements and a marriage that ended when Ketner could not deny that she was a lesbian. After years of living in secret, she and her partner occupying two separate nearby houses to allay suspicion, Ketner decided to come out. Some others, however, advised her to remain closeted to prevent “damaging” many of the progressive causes with which was involved. Ketner describes the process of telling friends and describes the family ceremony that included her partner Ginny, Ginny’s children, and a host of other invited guests, who ended up fully supporting them. Her mother, whom Ketner took care of for years, eventually was won over, as well. In 2008, Ketner ran as a totally “out” candidate for US Congress; she describes that and how she and others founded Alliance For Full Acceptance (AFFA) in Charleston, SC and SC Equality, in Columbia, SC. She mentions Tom Meyers and his organization We Are Family and discusses the work of AFFA and SC Equality on such LGBTQ issues such as HIV/AIDS awareness and on other public, religious, and law enforcement topics. Ketner discusses her curiosity as to what might survive death; and the interview concludes with her assessment of challenges facing the LGBTQ community today. She particularly notes the troubling policies and attitudes of President Donald J. Trump, and the lack of strategic planning necessary for progressive movements to sustain themselves and survive.
