Suzanne Groff is an attorney who moved to Charleston in 1995. She begins her interview by contextualizing her growing up in a small conservative community of Lancaster, PA, where she had close family relationships that continue to this day, even though she and her brother and have grown up and now live far apart. The conversation then turns to her coming to terms with her identity and how, initially, she kept her relationships with women secret. As time went on, however, she came out as a lesbian to friends, work, and family. Groff practiced as an attorney in New Hampshire from 1980 to 1995; what prompted her to leave the state was her desire to adopt a child, which was illegal for gay men and women under New Hampshire law. Since South Carolina did allow such adoptions, she and her partner moved here. She found differences between the North and the South arresting, specifically at how unreserved Southerners are in comparison and the personal questions they will ask. While she did have a troubling medical appointment at the Medical University of South Carolina, she found many progressive people in the area, and, despite her fears, her daughter was warmly accepted in public schools despite her difference in having two mothers. Groff describes difficulties she experienced with joining a law firm and the subsequent creation of her own firm and mentions how being a lesbian was once used against her. She was active in the development and growth of Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA) and discusses her legal work here on LGBTQ related issues, such as helping with name changes for transgender clients and her past work in AIDS-related activism in New England. Groff attended the march celebrating the 25th anniversary of the Stonewall riots in New York and reflects on issues such as “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” and Marriage Equality. The conversation closes on her thoughts on current challenges facing the LGBTQ community.
Karl Beckwith Smith (pronouns: He/Him) born in Saranac Lake, N.Y. in 1950, describes his early childhood in New York state and in Darien, Conn. as well as his relationship with his family, particularly his engineer father, whom he describes as a “man’s man,” and notable athlete, despite his father’s life-long struggle with diabetes. (At his death at age ninety, his father was reputed to be one of the world’s longest survivors and users of insulin.) Smith also discusses the eventual death of his mother and his time in St. Paul’s, a prestigious prep school in Concord, N.H., and his difficulties with classmates, whom he says knew he was gay before he himself knew. He speaks of how art provided an “escape” from many of the obstacles in his early life. He then delves into his time at Princeton University, where he studied art history and was one of the first students to paint for his thesis. While there, he lived for a few years in a commune-like setting with many others, including Lisa Halabey, eventually Queen Noor of Jordan. He makes mention of his mentor, the artist Esteban Vicente, and his exposure to other notable artists including Helen Frankenthaler. Smith recalls the date of April 1, 1972, when he met Hal Truesdale as one of the turning points of his life. He details the early years of their partnership, their travels in Europe and their “pioneering” loft living and entertaining extravagantly in lower Manhattan, where after giving up acting, Hal had his private hairdressing salon with prominent clients. Also discussed is the time they lived in Cold Springs, N.Y., their summer cottage at Loon Lake, Vt., and Smith’s very successful competitive sailing seasons in Newport, R.I. In 1984, Smith gave up other jobs to become an artist full-time, mostly painting furniture, interiors and mural. Returning to Truesdale’s birthplace of Columbia, S.C., to take care of his mother, the couple then moved to Charleston in 1992, where Beckwith painted murals for Charleston Place Hotel and a mural on André Michaux at the Charleston International Airport. After brief mentions of the AIDS crisis in NY and the Stonewall riot, Smith describes their settle life in Charleston. He and Truesdale were united in a civil union in 2000 in Vermont and married in 2013 in New York.
Harold (Hal) Hilton Truesdale (pronouns: He/Him/His) was born in Columbia, S.C., in 1949, discusses his early years there, his life as an actor and dancer in New York City, and his lifelong partnership with his husband Karl Beckwith Smith, III. The youngest of three children, with two older sisters, Truesdale had a privileged upbringing in Columbia, with very accepting parents and family who encouraged his love of dance. He did face some discrimination from others, but gave up praying not to be gay at age fifteen, accepting himself completely, and scorning friends who pretended not to remember the gay behavior they had shared. After graduating from Dreher High School in 1967, where some teachers were gay and the subject of rumors, he attended the University of South Carolina briefly. With help from his father, he moved to New York City, rented an apartment, enrolled in the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and the Joffrey Ballet School. Young and good looking, he had had boyfriends and often attended elite clubs such as Studio 54 and Max’s Kansas City. He was at the Stonewall Inn bar in June of 1969 when the police arrived and the riots broke out; his boyfriend, a Vietnam veteran, warned him to leave, which he did, after witnessing some of the attacks, eventually seeing his boyfriend’s bruises the next day. On April 1, 1972, he met Princeton University student Karl Beckwith Smith, and they bonded instantly, eventually sharing a civil union in Vermont in 2000 and being married near their summer home at Loon Lake, New York in 2013. Truesdale discusses bartending, acting in repertory theatre, auditioning for the film Dog Day Afternoon, acting in an unreleased film, and his great satisfaction in being a hairdresser with a salon of his own and a very loyal clientele. He speaks of his sexuality of being a part of his life, but something that does not sum him up, notes marching in the first gay pride parade in New York City and subsequent ones there in and in Charleston, S.C. where he and Smith moved in 1992, after the death of Truesdale’s mother in Columbia, S.C. In passing, he mentions being recently verbally harassed in Charleston and his membership in the open and affirming Circular Congregational Church, where, he says, most of the hate mail directed at the church focuses on its support of LGBTQ issues.
Christopher Holman (pronouns: He/Him) was born in Summerville, South Carolina, and besides a few years in Georgia and North Carolina, lived in South Carolina all his life. Holman describes the specific work he does in radio advertisement production and continuity and his passion for radio imaging. Growing up in Summerville, he met very little prejudice regarding his sexual identity which he now describes as being bisexual. His mother was accepting, and his brother stopped telling gay jokes and became Holman’s defender once he came out. Only in church did he encounter any sort of negativity about being gay; he could see the contradictions inherent in Scripture and interpret some of the proscriptions as being dated from a different time. While young he did lack self-esteem and had image problems which he has worked to overcome. He discusses his current relationship with a woman, which does not interfere with his attraction to other men, noting that his current relationship has the possibility of being an open one. He describes life as a gay man before and after he became HIV positive, and the way that his status impacted and ultimately ended, to his regret, a long-term relationship with a younger male partner, who spurned him and from whose family came death threats. He speaks about the ethics of withholding one’s HIV status, describes how ill he was in the past and his current good health. In passing he describes a local radio station “war” that absorbed him as a youth, refers to drag queens Brooke Collins and Missy E. Holiday, and describes the physical spaces and clientele of the bars the Arcade and the Treehouse, briefing mentioning the Battery as a cruising ground. He compares the gay interactions of the past with those in the present, noting the alienating and abbreviated ways of communication and of finding sexual partners via apps instead of direct human interaction. He speaks of his eagerness to participate in HIV/AIDS related programs and projects, his enthusiasm in marching in the Pride parade and, despite the social progress he has seen over the years, the enduring lack of kindness between people, straight or gay.
Topher (Christopher) Larkin (pronouns: He/Him) describes growing up in a variety of places including Panama and Germany, but mostly in Tampa, Florida where his father retired. He was adopted, as was as his older brother, born in Colombia, but growing up, he felt an integral part of the white Catholic family milieu in which he was raised. He began to acknowledge his gay identity in school and in Catholic youth groups. Being in an arts high school, his sexual identity was not an issue. His being identified by others as Asian because of his appearance and having assumptions made about him later raised concerns when he lived in Los Angeles. At first being apprehensive about moving to Charleston, with a boyfriend, he began investigating the community, glad to find it more progressive than he imagined. He attended gay-themed events and joined organizations such as the Alliance for Full Acceptance upon whose board he served. He also worked with the Pride Festival and helped plan a World AIDS Day observance which led to his work in the health-care field; he now serves as outreach coordinator for the Ryan White Wellness Center in Charleston. He reflects on the impacts larger cultural events such as Matthew Shepard’s murder, the coming out of Ellen DeGeneres, and marriage equality act failures and successes had on him. He also addresses the issue of identity politics. Larkin describes being judged as gay by his appearance and mannerisms, and now uses that as a tool to empower the LGBTQ community that needs representation. He further notes that, ironically, he is often targeted by those seeking to fill certain diversity slots; while others perceive him as Asian because of his appearance, he does not self-identify that way. Many people in the LGBTQ and other communities, he feels, spend too much time on their unique identities instead of coming together to solve common problems. He also expresses his frustration with the current Trump administration and its attitudes on a variety of issues, and chastises those who may have voted for third party candidates which helped bring about that Presidential victory for a candidate whose policies those voters now criticize and deride.
Barbara Nicodemus (pronouns: She/Hers), white retired school teacher, discusses her life, which she describes as "pretty boring," "pretty golden," and one lived under a "miracle cloud." Growing up in a close-knit, loving and accepting Catholic family in Indianapolis, IN, she accompanied her parents to marches and rallies in Chicago as a youngster. She attended Catholic schools (where she had to get permission to take physics instead of home economics), Ball State University, and Purdue, majoring in science education and later in biochemistry, when it was unusual for women to do so. Involved with another woman academician, she helped organize and run a women's center, "really a lesbian" center, and never encountered any sort of pushback there for her views or actions. She gave up working at Eli Lilly and Company, not agreeing with their philosophy, and moved with partner to various other universities, eventually moving to Clemson, SC. Starting a new career, Nicodemus became a high school teacher and had her education loans forgiven by teaching in the rural area of Walhalla, South Carolina. There, she was a "breath of fresh air," being out, when so many people were not. She continued to live under that "miracle cloud" of never facing any prejudice against her for being a lesbian, which she attributes to her personally being "passable" in her looks, and due to the Southern pattern of behavior of not being confrontational. After a year-and-a-half of attempts at artificial insemination, she gave birth to twin girls, whom she and her partner raised. While their relationship ended, the women remained close both emotionally and geographically. Nicodemus started and ran the "Upstate Women's Community" for lesbians for about ten years, putting on events to raise funds to help publish a newsletter. Teaching school, she was a role model for some students and staff and she expressed her disapproval once when an older friend dated a student. Retiring, she moved to Charleston with her wife, where she is involved with the Charleston Social Club, has joined book clubs (one specifically for lesbians), and volunteers to work with senior dementia patients. In speaking on LGBTQ topics, she notes her belief that gay men, like her brother, who also has children, might face more discrimination that gay women do; she describes her long-standing attendance at a women's festival, ponders its stand as terfs, trans-exclusionary radical feminists, not opening the festival to trans women, and questions her own thoughts on the topic. Being LGBTQ has just made her human, she feels, earlier noting that LGBTQ people often work harder than their straight peers, just to prove their worth. She ends the interview suggesting that while she has lived a life "in neutral," she has occasionally, when needed, shifted into "drive."
George Thomas Lamme (Pronouns: He/Him/His), discusses his early years in Nebraska, moving to New York City and Chicago, and then settling in Charleston, SC where he became involved in many LGBTQ related projects and businesses. Growing up gay and Catholic in Beemer, Nebraska, Lamme always knew he was different; engaging in cowboy and Indian games, he always played Big Ruby, "a bar girl". Attending a Lutheran college, he intended to be a priest, but eventually became a teacher in a Catholic school in his hometown instead. Pursuing some legal action against the school, he was threatened with being outed by the administration if he did not quit; it was recommended he move to New York City. There, he pursued his interest in theatre, working with H.M. Koutoukas and La Mama's avant gard theatre, among other things. Moving to Chicago, where he had worked in the box office of the Academy Festival Theatre, he met David Cardwell and Jeff Miller, who moved to Charleston, SC. In 1978, Lamme came to visit and never left. He was instrumental in finding backers for their bar Les Jardins, soon working there, writing, staging, and directing various musical spoofs and tributes. He also was befriended by Richard (Dick) Robison, whose Garden and Gun Club Lamme later joined as staff. He describes the small "quiet? beautiful" town Charleston was, its social structure and its class of closeted gay men. "Everybody knew that there were important people in the city? who had boyfriends," he notes. "But Charleston was such a polite city, you don't bring up that subject because? [t]hat person is a good person?." As a bartender and a door man, he was involved with selecting or rejecting those applying for membership, and got to know drag queens, society women, bar owners, other bars and bar patrons, many of which he describes. He also became active in the founding and running of Helping Hands dedicated to raising awareness of HIV and AIDS and raising funds for people with AIDS. He reflects on some of the earlier aspects of gay life in the city, speaks of attending local and national LGBTQ parades, describes the devastation of Hurricane Hugo, his work in hotel banqueting, as a guide at the Calhoun (now Williams) Mansion, and in the tourism office of the City of Charleston. He ends by affirming how satisfying it is to see LGBTQ people out in the community, describing how children and others realize he is gay, and how he loves "the fact that not a single person makes any trouble for anyone walking hand in hand in Charleston right now."
Jensen Cowan (pronouns: They/Them) was born July 4, 1997 in Brandon, Florida, and discusses growing up in Socastee, adjacent to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, in an emotionally and verbally abusive home. They discuss chosen family and close friends, their relationship with their mother and four sisters in a blended family and what it meant to leave home to start a new life at the College of Charleston, with mentions of being in the Bonner Leadership Program there. Cowan describes the struggles of separating from their family financially and finding a method to pay for school. Working with We Are Family and attending functions of Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Cowan felt “discrepancies in maturities” in various groups, eventually finding supportive friends and neighbors to help with personal issues and the need for food. Cowan discusses identifying as queer, nonbinary, and trans, mentions a fundraiser they started to help pay for surgery and speaks of their capstone project to map all the gender-neutral bathrooms on the College of Charleston campus. Cowan notes a lack of response from College administrators on this and other LGBTQ oriented issues, describes the inconveniences and disruptions caused to their college studies by this lack of facilities and speaks to the insensitivity of some faculty and friends in using offensive vocabularies and inappropriate pronouns. Cowan and the interviewer discuss the lack of diversity within Charleston Pride, and the larger LGBTQ movement as a whole, while praising classes and faculty, such as Dr. Kristi Bryan, within the College’s Women’s & Gender Studies program and the positive effect it has had on them and others. The interview closes with a discussion of Cowan’s plans for the future after graduating in May 2019, having earlier mentioned a disinclination to return to working as an educator/camp counselor at Kids On Point (formerly Chucktown Squash), due to the fact that the students there would have known them under a different name.
Terry Cherry (pronouns: She/Her/Hers), white police officer, discusses the path of her life from birth in North Carolina, to education in California and elsewhere, to her service, in a number of capacities, as an out LGBTQ person in the Charleston, SC police force. She was born in Pinehurst, NC into a Methodist family. Her parents were both professors and very accepting and loving. Identifying as boy, she felt constricted by what society demanded of her, and went into therapy as a child to help with her anger at the situation. She attended UCLA, and when studying abroad in Australia, she reached a crisis when she nearly died from influenza. At her recovery, she decided to live as fully and honestly as possible. She came out to her parents, at first assuming she would be a disappointment and "imperfect," something her family totally rejected. At the Church of Christ-affiliated Pepperdine University, getting an MBA, she stressed LGBTQ issues and after graduating, she worked in the private sector before asking herself, "What can I do to make a memorable impact?" Turning to law enforcement, she went through the San Diego Police Academy training and in 2012 returned, hesitantly, to the Lowcountry where she has family. Expecting to find herself in a more conservative environment, she nevertheless lived openly in her daily life and work for the Charleston Police Force. She first served as a patrol officer on James and Johns Island, where she made an "investment" in learning the culture and heritage of the community, becoming a valued friend to many. She was officer of the year in 2017 and was among the first on the police force to participate in the Pride parade. Throughout the interview, Cherry speaks of the need to be oneself, to always expect the best of all situations, and others, and to ignore stereotypes, while working for social justice. She also notes that the Charleston Police Department, where she has worked as liaisons to the LGBTQ and Latinx communities, and now serves as the head of recruitment activities, has become a leader in the nation in diversity and inclusion, while not necessarily advertising the fact. She also gives a few brief vignettes of her professional life, referencing working the Emanuel AME massacre, talking a young lesbian out of suicide, and other incidents. She also discusses the city of Charleston's hate crimes ordinance.
Narrator_042 (Pronouns: He/Him/His), who requested the withholding of his name from the interview, discuses growing up in a small town in South Carolina as part of a financially "pretty well-off" blended family. At a young age, he began to notice that he was different. Realizing that he identified as gay, the narrator encountered resistance and hostility from family members. He recounts his experiences of starting to embrace his identity. In the process, he experienced "a lot of acceptance from friends," but at home, he realized "things were kind of shunned away or seen as just wrong," or even "demonic." He details his family's denial of his sexuality, their attempts to rid him of what they viewed as a "demon," and their attempts to maintain a strict home life structured around religion and scripture. This included monitoring his activity to prevent exposure to what they viewed as corrupting content on television and the internet. Despite such opposition, he periodically came out to his family, first at the age of thirteen, again at fifteen, and for a third time as a College of Charleston student. He describes in detail the reactions of the people closest to him, the actions taken by his family, and the challenges he continues to encounter with family members and how they have progressed over time. Note: At the request of the narrator, his name and other identifying details have been removed from the transcript, and the audio file of this oral history interview is not available. In lieu of a proper name, the speaker is referred to as Narrator_042, and other deletions made to the transcript are denoted in brackets.
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