James Bouknight, MD, PhD (pronouns: He/His), white psychiatrist, speaks of growing up, family life, education and his personal and professional life. Born into a "close and loving family" in rural South Carolina, he grew up on a farm worked by others, his parents being teachers, and his maternal grandparents being a very supportive presence. He always knew he "wasn't like other kids", wasn't athletic, but excelled in school, attending Bishopville High School, as it was being integrated, calling off the junior senior. Aware of a flamboyant gay youth at school, and a gay man who was available for sex in Bishopville, Bouknight did not identify with them and was glad to start dating women when he attended Wofford, the fourth generation of his family to do so. Attending graduate school at Duke University was not a positive experience so Bouknight switched to the University of South Carolina where he had his first relationship with a man and earned his PhD in economics. He considers that relationship a "bad influence" since the man was closeted and engaged to be married. Bouknight then taught at Converse College, in an era when dating between professors and students was encouraged; he married the president of the student body, and their married life began well. He moved into the private sector and eventually became Chair of the Department of Business and Economics at Columbia College and his wife began law school. With time on his hands, Bouknight, keeping fit, began attending the YMCA in Columbia, SC, discovering it had an active gay scene, and his wife, learning of an affair he had with a man, demanded a divorce. It was a difficult time, leading to depression and financial straits. Finding a niche with happy, well-adjusted gay men in Columbia was a positive experience, and Bouknight began a relationship with Bob Stutts, another professor at Columbia College. At age thirty-five, he decided to enter medical school, realizing that the poor medical care his mother had received had led to her death. He attended the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, was out, and was friends with many other gay medical students. He did his residency in psychiatry at the Department of Mental Health in Columbia, SC, founding and running an AIDS support group; he eventually worked for a hospital and had a private practice, including many LGBTQ patients. When his relationship with Bob Stutts ended, he met Ramsey Still, whom he married in Maryland in 2013. He became board certified in geriatric psychiatry, one of the first in the state, and now, semi-retired, lives with his husband in Charleston, SC. At the end of the interview, Bouknight speaks of the illness and eventual death of his medical school friend, Olin Jolley, MD, of AIDS, and how those who are ill and dying are often put in the unfair position of taking care of those who visit them.
Blanche McCrary Boyd (pronouns: she/her/hers) describes the events that lead to her becoming an acclaimed novelist and professor at Connecticut College. Born in Charleston, SC in 1945 to working class parents, she lost her father at age 15, one of the crucial events of her life. Living with family on a 400-acre plantation near Rantowles, SC, she became “radicalized” by events seen on television, realizing, unlike other members of her family, that she lived in a racist society, finding a “sense of horror” and a “sense of beauty” in the South. She attended Duke University and met Dean Boyd, the man she married, while attending Harvard University summer school. Boyd credits her husband for helping her mature and encouraging her writing once she decided upon that as a goal. Moving to California, Boyd began writing seriously at Pomona College, and won a Wallace Stegner Fellowship in creative writing at Stanford University. Her marriage unraveled, as she discovered feminism, and her attraction to women, bringing her to a “different reality.” She had starting drinking alcohol soon after her father’s death and she spent over a decade abusing it and drugs as she moved to New York and became a “radical lesbian.” She helped set type for the classic novel Rubyfruit Jungle by Rita Mae Brown, and founded Sagaris, an “institute for feminist thought,” associating with leading feminists, including accused bomber Patricia Swinton. She published essays, mostly about the South, in The Village Voice, learned how to “seize” her authority, and published books on popular musicians under the name Vivian Claire. She returned to Charleston, continuing writing and publishing novels, becoming sober in 1981. She discusses how a teenage car wreck involving a Black man’s death became the “fulcrum of my understanding of life” and how it serves as a metaphor for America as she wonders “what white people who are anti-racist are going to do about white supremacy.” She and her wife Leslie are the mothers of twins, James and Julia, and Boyd reflects on parenting, Leslie’s life-threatening illnesses, and how her novel Tomb of the Unknown Racist has capped her fiction writing career. As retirement from Connecticut College looms, she assesses her accomplishments, notes satisfactions, and the many surprising turns her life took.
Michael Lott (pronouns: He/Him/His). In the first of two oral history interviews, Michael Lott discusses his early years, his family, coming out, training and practice as a psychiatrist, his personal and professional life in New York City in the era of AIDS, and his health and retirement. Born in Norfolk, VA, he grew up in the Charleston, SC area on James Island, closely connected to his mother and grandfather, but alienated from his father, whom he was told was his stepfather until he was eight. Deeply religious, he would try “to pray the gay away” after various youthful sexual encounters, even as he mentions religious figures who were gay. He began college at Furman and finished at the College of Charleston, experiencing and describing closeted gay life on campus, in bars, like the Garden and Gun Club, and the city. Engaged briefly, he broke that off and was condemned for his sexual orientation by his Campus Crusade for Christ friends. His own near-death and the death of his brother prompted him to begin living an authentic life as he began his studies at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC) in 1980. He briefly mentions being on a plane hijacked to Cuba along with a gay CIA agent, and speaks more fully of homophobia at MUSC aimed at him and at an early AIDS patient at Charleston County Hospital. Serving on national medical school boards and committees, he engaged in gay and lesbian related causes, continuing his education in San Francisco (under a doctor who was a part of the Dan White murder trial) and did his residency in New York City, as it experienced the crises of AIDS, crack, and homelessness. Moving there in 1985 as “a farm boy from South Carolina” he eventually ran “with the Saint [disco] crowd”, partied with “beautiful people” on Fire Island and eventually became known as “the Tommy Tune of Death” for helping choreograph the exits of many friends lost to AIDS. He taught at New York University before “selling out” to work for drug companies, eventually going on disability due to his own HIV status. A slow progressor, diagnosed in 1989, he did not go on medications until 2016. Lott moved to Asheville, NC in 2019 and was settling in when the COVID-19 pandemic began. He speaks favorably of the city’s liberal attitudes and ends speaking about the sadness of all his losses but his happiness that younger LGBTQ people have not had to endure experiences similar to his.
Douglas Seymour (pronouns: He/Him/His) relates the story of his abusive childhood, growing up and attending school and college in Charleston, SC, his life as an adult, and his work as a peer navigator for people with HIV, often speaking forcefully on the corrosive impact of homophobia. He was beaten by his father for not liking sports and cars, and, although he adored his mother, she told him “being gay was worse than being a child molester and a child murderer.” He always knew he was attracted to men, and if “there hadn’t been the hitch of being told it was wrong...it would have been a natural flow into adulthood.” He graduated First Baptist High School, and due to his father’s demands, attended the Citadel, terrified that he would be picked on for being gay. There, however, he found acceptance among upperclassmen for his knowledge of pop music and found other gay cadets. Having started frequenting the bar Basin Street South as an underage teen, he began going to the King Street Garden and Gun Club, and Seymour recalls his times there and that era of the late 1970s and early 1980s as one of the happiest periods of his life. After college, he worked as a journalist in Summerville, SC, and he describes the cliquish nature of Charleston gay life at the time. His lack of self-esteem, he says, prompted his alcoholism and his settling into personal relationships that were often abusive. He lived in Washington, DC, from 1982 to 1991 and returned to Charleston with a diagnosis of AIDS, told by physicians to prepare to die. After living with his parents, and coming out to them, he moved into his own apartment and received health care from his physician and Lowcountry AIDS Services. Facing health crises, he quit drinking and quit smoking, hired a personal trainer and was in the best shape of his life in his fifties. He began to work for the local Ryan White program as a peer navigator for people newly diagnosed or those long-term survivors like himself. Seymour describes some of the social support programs he set up and notes the quandary of “a whole bunch of us gay men...[with] no career, no retirement...because we weren’t supposed to be here, and now we’re older, we’re isolated...[and] it kind of feels like nobody wants you.” The interview ends with reflections on the lack of a variety of specific spaces for LGBTQ people and how Charleston has changed over the years.
In his second oral history, Michael Lott (pronouns: He/Him/His) adds some information to fill out his first interview. He speaks of an early closeted boyfriend from Goose Creek, SC who killed himself probably due to his homosexuality, tells of his medical training in Charleston, SC where he encountered homophobia, and in New York City where many of his peers and professors were gay. He mentions knowing AIDS activist and author Larry Kramer, noting how Kramer transposed real events into his play The Normal Heart; he also discusses his friendship and admiration for gay activist and scholar Vito Russo. He describes his participation with the Gay Men’s Health Crisis AIDS fund-raising parties at the Pines on Fire Island, recalls professors who helped him at the College of Charleston, speaks of student and fraternity life there, and mentions future College President Glenn McConnell, as well as his experience with friends and patients during the AIDS crisis in New York.
Eric Sullivan (Pronouns: He/Him/His) describes growing up Easton, Maryland, moving to Charleston, SC to attend the College of Charleston, his graduate school training in Los Angeles, CA and his work as an LGBTQ therapist. One of five siblings, Sullivan knew he was different at "a pretty young age," and had a sense that he was gay before fully understanding what that meant. He "never got any messages growing up?about ? what the LGBTQ community was," but did have access to television programs such as Will and Grace and Queer as Folk. Coming out first to a friend, and then to his mother, he came out in "a public declarative statement" as part of a high school group project studying conversion therapy, realizing he could not just remain "a neutral party." He had experienced some negative responses before coming out, but very little afterwards. Sullivan explains his decision to attend the College of Charleston where he had his "first glimpse into gay culture" at a gay straight alliance meeting and at the gay bar Patrick's, and later Pantheon, both of which he describes. He notes with satisfaction how LGBTQ visibility has increased on campus since his years in school and recounts how a chance encounter working as waiter led him to graduate school in Los Angeles in the first LGBTQ counseling program in the country. He worked with homeless LGBTQ youth, adapted to the life there, was licensed and eventually moved back to Charleston, where, after some trepidation, he opened a practice specifically targeting LGBTQ clients. Responding to queries from people throughout the state seeking his services, he developed a successful on-line video practice before the COVID 19 pandemic. The interview concludes with Sullivan discussing the impacts of isolation, religion, and the lack of visibility on South Carolina's LGBTQ community, as well as other mental health issues.
Jack Sewell (pronouns: He/Him) speaks mostly of his life in Charleston, the various businesses in which he was engaged, and gay life, characters, and bars in the city. Born as a twin in Oklahoma, he grew up in Texas, was raised in a conservative Southern Baptist household and joined the Navy, which brought him to Charleston in 1966. While mostly closeted, to stay in the service, Sewell nevertheless visited many gay clubs, despite their being banned by the Shore Patrol, and he mentions the Navy investigating sailors for homosexual activities. In reply to questions, he names and describes many of the bars in town including The Wagon Wheel, The Ocean Bar and Grill, Pat's Lounge, the Stardust Lounge, the Bat Room, and "the Tiltin' Hilton" on Folly Beach, among others, including a gay bar he and his partner tried to open on Market Street, but which failed due to the curfew imposed by martial law during the 1969 Hospital Worker's strike. He also describes homophobia, vice squad raids, pay offs, cruising on the Battery and makes mention of the YMCA and bus station and other bathrooms. Out of the Navy, he first had odd jobs, including working as a debt collector, which led to visiting Dawn Langley Simmons. He and his partner began working as carpenters, building cabinetry for many businesses, bringing them in contact with many Jewish merchants and building owners whom he describes. The couple first opened "head" shops named A Different World, catering to a hippy clientele, in Charleston and Orangeburg and later opened a series of restaurants called The Hungry Lion in a variety of locations in the city, with the main location being near the College of Charleston on George Street. Sewell, who eventually bought out his partner, worked long days, often as the chief cook, as well doing numerous other tasks, eventually commuting from McClellanville, SC to where he retired in 2014. In the course of the interview he mentions? the Davis building, site of the Hungry Lion and the owners, a Jewish family in London, Jules Garvin, Bobby Tucker, Clifton Harris, Jr., whose murder on the Battery in 2006 is still unsolved, Joe Trott and other colorful gay characters. He also explains the coded vocabulary he and his friends used, mentions later bars such as the Garden and Gun Club, Les Jardins, and working at the Arcade Club and the restaurant Spanky's associated with it. He ends speaking of life in McClellanville and the man who means so much to him, Dewey Williams, a partner of 39 years, whom he married at the Lincoln Memorial in 2010.?
Barbara Nicodemus (pronouns: She/Hers), white retired school teacher, discusses her life, which she describes as "pretty boring," "pretty golden," and one lived under a "miracle cloud." Growing up in a close-knit, loving and accepting Catholic family in Indianapolis, IN, she accompanied her parents to marches and rallies in Chicago as a youngster. She attended Catholic schools (where she had to get permission to take physics instead of home economics), Ball State University, and Purdue, majoring in science education and later in biochemistry, when it was unusual for women to do so. Involved with another woman academician, she helped organize and run a women's center, "really a lesbian" center, and never encountered any sort of pushback there for her views or actions. She gave up working at Eli Lilly and Company, not agreeing with their philosophy, and moved with partner to various other universities, eventually moving to Clemson, SC. Starting a new career, Nicodemus became a high school teacher and had her education loans forgiven by teaching in the rural area of Walhalla, South Carolina. There, she was a "breath of fresh air," being out, when so many people were not. She continued to live under that "miracle cloud" of never facing any prejudice against her for being a lesbian, which she attributes to her personally being "passable" in her looks, and due to the Southern pattern of behavior of not being confrontational. After a year-and-a-half of attempts at artificial insemination, she gave birth to twin girls, whom she and her partner raised. While their relationship ended, the women remained close both emotionally and geographically. Nicodemus started and ran the "Upstate Women's Community" for lesbians for about ten years, putting on events to raise funds to help publish a newsletter. Teaching school, she was a role model for some students and staff and she expressed her disapproval once when an older friend dated a student. Retiring, she moved to Charleston with her wife, where she is involved with the Charleston Social Club, has joined book clubs (one specifically for lesbians), and volunteers to work with senior dementia patients. In speaking on LGBTQ topics, she notes her belief that gay men, like her brother, who also has children, might face more discrimination that gay women do; she describes her long-standing attendance at a women's festival, ponders its stand as terfs, trans-exclusionary radical feminists, not opening the festival to trans women, and questions her own thoughts on the topic. Being LGBTQ has just made her human, she feels, earlier noting that LGBTQ people often work harder than their straight peers, just to prove their worth. She ends the interview suggesting that while she has lived a life "in neutral," she has occasionally, when needed, shifted into "drive."
George Thomas Lamme (Pronouns: He/Him/His), discusses his early years in Nebraska, moving to New York City and Chicago, and then settling in Charleston, SC where he became involved in many LGBTQ related projects and businesses. Growing up gay and Catholic in Beemer, Nebraska, Lamme always knew he was different; engaging in cowboy and Indian games, he always played Big Ruby, "a bar girl". Attending a Lutheran college, he intended to be a priest, but eventually became a teacher in a Catholic school in his hometown instead. Pursuing some legal action against the school, he was threatened with being outed by the administration if he did not quit; it was recommended he move to New York City. There, he pursued his interest in theatre, working with H.M. Koutoukas and La Mama's avant gard theatre, among other things. Moving to Chicago, where he had worked in the box office of the Academy Festival Theatre, he met David Cardwell and Jeff Miller, who moved to Charleston, SC. In 1978, Lamme came to visit and never left. He was instrumental in finding backers for their bar Les Jardins, soon working there, writing, staging, and directing various musical spoofs and tributes. He also was befriended by Richard (Dick) Robison, whose Garden and Gun Club Lamme later joined as staff. He describes the small "quiet? beautiful" town Charleston was, its social structure and its class of closeted gay men. "Everybody knew that there were important people in the city? who had boyfriends," he notes. "But Charleston was such a polite city, you don't bring up that subject because? [t]hat person is a good person?." As a bartender and a door man, he was involved with selecting or rejecting those applying for membership, and got to know drag queens, society women, bar owners, other bars and bar patrons, many of which he describes. He also became active in the founding and running of Helping Hands dedicated to raising awareness of HIV and AIDS and raising funds for people with AIDS. He reflects on some of the earlier aspects of gay life in the city, speaks of attending local and national LGBTQ parades, describes the devastation of Hurricane Hugo, his work in hotel banqueting, as a guide at the Calhoun (now Williams) Mansion, and in the tourism office of the City of Charleston. He ends by affirming how satisfying it is to see LGBTQ people out in the community, describing how children and others realize he is gay, and how he loves "the fact that not a single person makes any trouble for anyone walking hand in hand in Charleston right now."
Jensen Cowan (pronouns: They/Them) was born July 4, 1997 in Brandon, Florida, and discusses growing up in Socastee, adjacent to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, in an emotionally and verbally abusive home. They discuss chosen family and close friends, their relationship with their mother and four sisters in a blended family and what it meant to leave home to start a new life at the College of Charleston, with mentions of being in the Bonner Leadership Program there. Cowan describes the struggles of separating from their family financially and finding a method to pay for school. Working with We Are Family and attending functions of Alliance for Full Acceptance (AFFA), Cowan felt “discrepancies in maturities” in various groups, eventually finding supportive friends and neighbors to help with personal issues and the need for food. Cowan discusses identifying as queer, nonbinary, and trans, mentions a fundraiser they started to help pay for surgery and speaks of their capstone project to map all the gender-neutral bathrooms on the College of Charleston campus. Cowan notes a lack of response from College administrators on this and other LGBTQ oriented issues, describes the inconveniences and disruptions caused to their college studies by this lack of facilities and speaks to the insensitivity of some faculty and friends in using offensive vocabularies and inappropriate pronouns. Cowan and the interviewer discuss the lack of diversity within Charleston Pride, and the larger LGBTQ movement as a whole, while praising classes and faculty, such as Dr. Kristi Bryan, within the College’s Women’s & Gender Studies program and the positive effect it has had on them and others. The interview closes with a discussion of Cowan’s plans for the future after graduating in May 2019, having earlier mentioned a disinclination to return to working as an educator/camp counselor at Kids On Point (formerly Chucktown Squash), due to the fact that the students there would have known them under a different name.
As part of 2019 Pride Week on the College of Charleston campus, local television journalist Megan Rivers moderates and interviews four speakers at an "LGBTQ+ Justice: The Road Ahead Panel Discussion" sponsored by the Charleston American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the Ryan White Wellness Center. The panelists introduce themselves sequentially and then, slightly out of order, each one answers one question posed by Rivers. Cora Webb (pronouns: she/her/they/them), Program Director of We Are Family, addresses issues facing LGBTQ+ youth such as bullying; the failure of schools to stop it; bathroom access for trans students; and the state's "No Promo Homo" law prohibiting discussion of queer identifies except in a negative light. Michael Luciano (pronouns: he/him) speaks on HIV and AIDS as a Peer Treatment Educator at Palmetto Community Care, a member of the National AIDS Treatment Advocacy Project, the Southern AIDS Coalition, the Southern AIDS Strategy Coalition, the Tri-County Sexual Health Awareness Prevention and Education Initiative (SHAPE Tri-County), and other councils and committees. He mentions living with HIV for decades and focuses on SC state laws that target, criminalize. and stigmatize people living with HIV. Jerry Evans (pronouns: he/him), introducing himself as gay lawyer passionate about First Amendment issues, then discusses "religious refusal" and court cases pitting religious objections on certain topics against equal protection under the law for LGBTQ+ and other people. The last to be introduced, Kenya Cummings (pronouns: she/her/they/them), the Opportunities Organizer for Carolina Youth Action Project, speaks of her organization that serves and educates for girls, trans youth and gender non-conforming youth. She advocates for comprehensive sex education and discusses the state's over reliance on School Resource Officers (SROs), law enforcement officers who apply police tactics instead of educational approaches in difficult situations in schools, creating more problems than they solve.
Terry Cherry (pronouns: She/Her/Hers), white police officer, discusses the path of her life from birth in North Carolina, to education in California and elsewhere, to her service, in a number of capacities, as an out LGBTQ person in the Charleston, SC police force. She was born in Pinehurst, NC into a Methodist family. Her parents were both professors and very accepting and loving. Identifying as boy, she felt constricted by what society demanded of her, and went into therapy as a child to help with her anger at the situation. She attended UCLA, and when studying abroad in Australia, she reached a crisis when she nearly died from influenza. At her recovery, she decided to live as fully and honestly as possible. She came out to her parents, at first assuming she would be a disappointment and "imperfect," something her family totally rejected. At the Church of Christ-affiliated Pepperdine University, getting an MBA, she stressed LGBTQ issues and after graduating, she worked in the private sector before asking herself, "What can I do to make a memorable impact?" Turning to law enforcement, she went through the San Diego Police Academy training and in 2012 returned, hesitantly, to the Lowcountry where she has family. Expecting to find herself in a more conservative environment, she nevertheless lived openly in her daily life and work for the Charleston Police Force. She first served as a patrol officer on James and Johns Island, where she made an "investment" in learning the culture and heritage of the community, becoming a valued friend to many. She was officer of the year in 2017 and was among the first on the police force to participate in the Pride parade. Throughout the interview, Cherry speaks of the need to be oneself, to always expect the best of all situations, and others, and to ignore stereotypes, while working for social justice. She also notes that the Charleston Police Department, where she has worked as liaisons to the LGBTQ and Latinx communities, and now serves as the head of recruitment activities, has become a leader in the nation in diversity and inclusion, while not necessarily advertising the fact. She also gives a few brief vignettes of her professional life, referencing working the Emanuel AME massacre, talking a young lesbian out of suicide, and other incidents. She also discusses the city of Charleston's hate crimes ordinance.
Narrator_042 (Pronouns: He/Him/His), who requested the withholding of his name from the interview, discuses growing up in a small town in South Carolina as part of a financially "pretty well-off" blended family. At a young age, he began to notice that he was different. Realizing that he identified as gay, the narrator encountered resistance and hostility from family members. He recounts his experiences of starting to embrace his identity. In the process, he experienced "a lot of acceptance from friends," but at home, he realized "things were kind of shunned away or seen as just wrong," or even "demonic." He details his family's denial of his sexuality, their attempts to rid him of what they viewed as a "demon," and their attempts to maintain a strict home life structured around religion and scripture. This included monitoring his activity to prevent exposure to what they viewed as corrupting content on television and the internet. Despite such opposition, he periodically came out to his family, first at the age of thirteen, again at fifteen, and for a third time as a College of Charleston student. He describes in detail the reactions of the people closest to him, the actions taken by his family, and the challenges he continues to encounter with family members and how they have progressed over time. Note: At the request of the narrator, his name and other identifying details have been removed from the transcript, and the audio file of this oral history interview is not available. In lieu of a proper name, the speaker is referred to as Narrator_042, and other deletions made to the transcript are denoted in brackets.
In this interview Crystal Denise Helton (pronouns she, her, hers), a white program coordinator at the Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC), speaks of growing up in West Virginia, her awakening to her sexual identity, her experiences with friends, family and lovers, her marriage and divorce, her conversion to Judaism, and her reflections on herself and society. An only child growing up in with parents who were divorced, but still living together, Helton had a solitary youth, taking refuge in reading, offering escape from an alcoholic father, and a sometimes-inattentive mother. Closeted in high school, she nevertheless had a girlfriend who lived nearby and she avoided the censure of disapproving peers while attending a series of different churches and denominations. Helton first realized she was lesbian when she had a crush on a Sunday school teacher, and evolved a healthy attitude to her sexuality without the guidance or advice of others. Leaving home, near Princeton, West Virginia, Helton attended Marshall University and later lived in Lexington, KY where she switched from a PhD program in history to a masters program in library science, and where she was in a relationship with the woman who eventually became her wife. While she understood prejudice against gay people, Helton never felt much of it directed at her, commenting that her conversion to Judaism, completed at Kahal Kadosh Beth Elohim (KKBE), in Charleston, SC, has sparked more of a negative response from others than her sexuality. Her ex-wife joined her in the conversion experience and there was much resistance to this religious change in her spouse's family. The breakup and divorce (the couple had three varying marriage ceremonies, including a very positive experience at KKBE), was difficult for Helton, who did not instigate it. Calling her ex-wife the extrovert, and herself an introvert, Helton discusses her family of choice, including a long-time friend, and new ones made in a bocce league and among "murderinos", fans of the "My Favorite Murders" podcast. She speaks of learning patience in a romantic relationship, and discusses the greater ease with identity and gender fluidity she sees in people younger than she. She believes that being a member of the LGBTQ community has brought her insight into privilege, power, and prejudice in the larger society.
Vanity Reid Deterville (she, her, hers), discusses her upbringing in Charleston, SC, college years spent in Atlanta, GA, and the challenges she faced as accepting herself and being accepted in society as an African American trans woman. Growing up in an extended religious family, Deterville knew she was different from most of her friends and family as she heeded the warning of her grandmother to not share her concept of her gender identity with most other people. Attending Morehouse College in Atlanta opened up new ways of expressing gender identity and sexual orientation for her, but conflicts with her family over these and other issues led to an unstable period in her life, when she experienced homelessness or near homelessness, financial problems and battles with drugs and dependency. She describes the various stages of self-expression she went through at Morehouse and the issues presenting feminine triggered at the all-male school and how over the years, there have been family rifts and reconciliations. She addresses what it was like to come out in Charleston, mentions the role the LGBTQ youth organization We Are Family played in the process and speaks a bit about the bar scene, articulating a stratification she noticed along class and racial lines._Deterville also speaks about local transgender issues, the segregated nature of LGBTQ life, and how many of her friends are more eager to attend Black Gay Pride events out of town rather than local gay pride events. She also notes the irony that people in the white community seem more empathetic on, and attuned to, transgender issues, than many in the people of color community. Yet white gay men tend to want to label and define her only as a drag performer and not accept her for her true status. She refers to a play "Sugar in the Grits" she wrote and performed for the local MOJA festival, a rare event that linked Gullah-Geechee heritage and LGBTQ life._In response to the question of what being LGBTQ has meant to her, she answers that it has led to "trailblazing," being constantly open to questioning normalcy, learning to love oneself, despite what one is taught, and being able to look at life in an a more nuanced and even more spiritual manner._
Sunshine Goodman (pronouns: She/Her/Hers) discusses life experiences, spirituality, work in the beauty industry, her philosophy and attitude to life and her assumption of the role as a “self-proclaimed ambassador of authenticity.” Growing up in Roanoke, VA, Goodman spent time as a youth with her mother’s family in Charleston, SC. Bullied in school for appearing feminine and steered away from coming out in a small conservative town, Goodman left after high school to live with an aunt in Charleston. First working in women’s fashion stores, Goodman then became an apprentice with a stylist to gain a barber’s license. While pursuing a strong sense of personal style and founding a brand called Celebritimage, Goodman also searched for the most authentic way of living and manifesting a God-given individuality. While getting both positive and negative feedback for the change she made in her appearance, Goodman refused to be defined by an image, instead feeling that “everything I do...is for the benefit of other people. Even the way I look is not just for me.” Goodman discusses her feelings about God’s watching out for all, her experiences with angels, numerology, and prophetic voices telling her truths about others and herself. It is a gift she uses to help others find confidence, their true calling, and to embrace their bodies and sexuality, also the theme of her book Three Seasons of Life: Discovery, Believe, Faith. Living briefly in Los Angeles, Goodman speaks of being gender fluid and identifying with the trans community, saying that all are capable of transformation. In response to questions, she addresses homophobia within the African American and African American religious communities, prejudice within the LGBTQ community, and she describes many Charleston bars such as Dudley’s, Pantheon, the Cure, and others, especially the once Black-friendly Déjà Vu. She notes the positive effects of increasing LGBTQ visibility yet thinks that it drives some back into hiding for fear of being identified with it. While Goodman uses social media to help influence people to embrace their true selves, she laments the abuse of dating apps. She concludes the interview with her thoughts on gentrification in Charleston, and the need of leaving a legacy, especially being Black and gay. Note: This interview was conducted when the narrator preferred male pronouns. The narrator now uses she/her pronouns and requested they be changed. The pronouns were substituted and are bracketed in the transcript, but they were not altered, or removed, from the audio file.
Stephen “Steve” Cagle (pronouns: He/Him/His) discusses his upbringing in North Carolina, education as a pharmacist, service in the armed forces, his experiences as a gay man in the South, abroad and in California, and eventually opening a gay bed and breakfast with his domestic partner, Charles S. Holt, at Folly Beach, SC. Born in Concord NC, he grew up with an ailing father who died young, and a mother who struggled to find her son positive male role models. Knowing he was gay from an early age, Cagle, while having sexual experiences, kept quiet about his orientation in his hometown where such things were not discussed, but not necessarily condemned. He had somewhat closeted affairs when he attended pharmacy school at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Drafted into the army, Cagle, wanting to serve his country to fulfill his father’s inability to do so, found a fairly tolerant attitude to gays in the military. Despite others being out, he was more reserved, yet he mentions sexual experiences at bases at home and abroad in his service in northern Italy. After leaving the service Cagle lived in Henderson, NC, and then in Charlotte, NC, working as a pharmacist. He describes a gay bar in Charlotte sharing a site with a Denny’s Restaurant and explains the allure and dangers of anonymous sex in rest stops on the Interstate 85 Highway corridor in North Carolina, mentioning a Highway Patrolman who frequented those sites. Having been raised an only child and feeling he lacked social skills in befriending people, Cagle did find relationships, eventually falling in love with a married US Marine who suggested Cagle move to California in 1977 to be near him. There, the affair ended, as Cagle knew it would, but he met Charles (Chuck) Holt, who worked in Los Angeles, reading film scripts and crossing paths with celebrities such as Liberace and Rock Hudson. The men became a couple, and they began to explore their options in 1986 after Holt discovered he was HIV positive. The couple pulled up stakes, began an extended road trip across the country, guided by Damron’s Gay Guides, and ended up founding and running the gay Charleston Bed and Breakfast at Folly Beach. Cagle discusses the place’s importance, its success, the friendly acceptance it met on Folly Beach, also mentioning Hurricane Hugo, and how others, including his mother, came to accept him and help run the B and B after Holt’s death in 1995. Cagle sold the B and B, retired from the Ralph Johnson Veterans Administration Hospital and now lives in Charleston with his husband John Meffert.
Pat Patterson (pronouns: He/Him/His) speaks of family life, childhood, growing up, coming out, his political activism through drag performance, interactions with the Methodist Church, and his perceptions of the LGBTQ community. Born and reared in a loving and accepting family environment in Spartanburg, SC, he attended Wofford College, the 37th family member to do so. “I’m a Palmetto tree with fairly deep roots,” he notes. He came out in graduate school at the University of SC, and speaks about the founding of its Bisexual Gay and Lesbian Association (BGLA) and how he assumed his drag persona Patti O’Furniture, “a bully pulpit to raise awareness,” on a dare. At various points in the interview, Patterson speaks of the stratification of the LGBTQ community (“part of our charm and part of our problem”), with most of the focus on Charleston, identifying the conservative “blazer gays” who practice “an odd social decorum” at private parties, the “SIN” or service industry gays who are more out, and other socially and geographically distanced groups. He speaks of racism, and racial and trans insensitivity, the difference between the Charleston Pride and the Columbia, SC-based South Carolina Pride organizations, the gay rugby team, the Charleston Blockade, and K. J. Ivery, once a student of his and now an out trans officer of the Charleston Police Department. Having first done AIDS work in Columbia, SC with his friend Bill Edens, he became involved with the SC Equality Coalition, and he mentions a variety of other LGBTQ organizations and leaders. He began commuting to Charleston to perform drag at the bar Patrick’s, eventually moving there, arranging performances at Dudley’s, and he now also performs at brunches, breweries and bingo, usually emceeing, giving his tips from the audience to charity and passing the hat at performances for different causes and organizations. Straight audiences, he notes, are often more appreciative, and in describing his own indoctrination into drag, he shares some of the vocabulary, mentions those icons who influenced him and praises Jay White for his Brooke Collins performances. He names and describes many bars throughout the state, speaks of his evolution as a performer and activist, as well as the need to be aware of how unintended insults or slurs can occur. Making distinctions between religion and faith, the latter very important to him, Patterson also describes his family’s attachment to their local Methodist congregation in Spartanburg and their dedication to liberalizing the Methodist Church in general.
K. J. Ivery (pronouns: He/Him/His), the first openly trans officer with the Charleston Police Department, discusses growing up, coming into his sexuality and gender identity, schooling, family relations and a variety of other topics. A Charleston native, Ivery grew up in a religious family where sexual non-conformity was not encouraged, and in a city where one faced further discrimination for being both Black and queer. He experienced difficulties with his parents after identifying as bisexual in middle school. Later identifying as gay, Ivery had a girlfriend in high school. He speaks of using the internet to find information and peers while in school, having attended Charles Towne Academy and later the Academic Magnet High School. He found the latter place very accepting, despite not being permitted to start a Gay-Straight Alliance, which he nevertheless did, using a different name to mask it. Identifying as trans-masculine, he discusses how he didn't come out to his family until he was identified in the Post & Courier as an openly transgender police officer. He began to investigate this part of his identity while attending the University of South Carolina, in Columbia, where he again was very active in its Gay-Straight Alliance. Ivery was impressed with Columbia's Harriet Hancock Center, and he discusses the arbitrariness and social constructs of gender, speaks of the "awesome things about... identifying as queer" and expresses delight in not being trapped in the limitations of being a cis-gender male, while also discussing the stud/femme roles prevalent in some lesbian communities. Having majored in criminology, he returned to Charleston in 2012 and immediately began working with the Charleston Police Department, which he lauds for its openness and high standards, and which adapted easily to his transitioning. On the force, he first worked in West Ashley neighborhoods before moving to the tourist districts downtown, while serving as an LGBT liaison to the community, which he describes as cliquish, and stratified along economic, racial and even geographic lines. He has worked with We Are Family, the Alliance for Full Acceptance (helping to administer the Trans Love Fund), Charleston Area Trans Support (CATS), and the Charleston YOUth Count, as well as founding a trans-masculine support and social group. He describes his relationship with his wife, Sam Diamond, the marriage ceremony they created and which their families attended, and how society looks at and presumes it understands the dynamics of their interracial marriage. He contrasts his spirituality compared to his family's rigid religious beliefs, voicing his respect for them and their views and noting the growing acceptance by his parents and siblings. Before concluding he also addresses gentrification in Charleston, specifically in regard to his grandparents' home on Line Street, his attendance at an early Charleston Pride Parade, his social life, and the advancements and progress of the LGBTQ community.
Shelli Quenga (pronouns: She/Hers), describes living all over the world, moving to Charleston in her 20s and coming out as a lesbian in her 40s. Her father was in the Air Force, and she discusses her experiences being the daughter of a mixed-race couple with a Guamanian father and a white mother. Educated at Vassar, she married twice. Although she had a gay uncle, “it just never occurred to me that being gay was an option,” she states. Married with one child, she met another woman with four children (two withs special needs) and their relationship began; the coming out process was “tortuous.” During it, she lost a relationship with her daughter, her parents, and her job due to its homophobic work environment. Quenga discusses how her experience differs from that of lesbians who never married men, noting her realization that heterosexuality did give her more power and status. She speaks of her obliviousness to LGBTQ people and issues before coming out and her limited awareness of the Charleston LGBTQ community. That changed once she met Lynn Dugan and began to attend functions organized by the Charleston Social Club, a local lesbian group that Dugan founded. She describes the pressure she feels to keep her personal and business lives separate, including on social media, while also observing how such mundane things as health care forms can be off-putting to LGBTQ people and express subtle discrimination. With the passage of time, she has become more vocal in order to demonstrate to others how misleading or stereotypical their assumptions about her can be, and she has found a shift in those around her, too. She and her wife have been accepted by their extended families, their children now have LGBTQ friends, and Quenga discusses how they keep her up to date with terminology and issues in the community. She mentions the rupture in the congregation of Old St. Andrews Episcopal Church over the ordination of a gay bishop, and ends the interview discussing racism and sexism in South Carolina, and how an inability to be fully free and out causes her to question staying in the state. Her advice for younger people, however, is to leave the state, achieve success not possible here, and then perhaps come back.
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